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this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
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I was replying to OPs points directly. They didnt mention Gaza at all. What the fuck are you on about?
I misunderstood you. I apologize. I read the "your grievances" as being toward everyone hesitant to vote for him, rather than to OP's specific issues. Big picture, I do think his issues are more to do with what I said in my response to my other interlocutor. I also think him bending the rail workers over the barrel is also a factor. Again, I apologize for insulting you.
We're good, thanks for owning it.
I'll refrain from going back and forth on whatabouts, which is an endless discussion. Every president in the history of the US, every ruler in the history of man, is going to have a long list of negatives that can be dug up. No solution works for everyone.
Thanks for the forgiveness. That's not sarcasm. To be honest I'm conflicted about my own decision not to vote for him, but I genuinely do feel that not voting for him will move that party more toward not being a "slightly better than conservative" one. I had a conversation with a female coworker years ago revolving around the concept of "How convenient that you can ignore this presidency and not feel the effects, whereas we (Latina woman) cannot take that chance." To me, it's more advantageous to force the party to the left than to acquiesce and make them feel like they can get away with ... Not giving a shit about anyone" Just my take and I'm honestly interested in your counterpoint. In any case, thanks for the conversation. Edit: autocorrect.
Alright, I'll bite. Like I said, I'm not interested into getting into a long drawn out whataboutism thread, so I'll just state my opinion and leave it at that.
Despite being the moderate candidate, Biden has turned out to be rather progressive in practice.
He has achieved quite a lot, despite a razer thin lead in the senate (which includes fussy independents), and a completely dysfunctional republican house majority. And an overwhelmingly corrupt conservative SCOTUS fighting him at every turn, as well as a ton of blatantly partisan lower court judges. And remnants of corrupt trump cronies still planted throughout unelected positions. And a mess of a pandemic to recover from.
Despite all that, he has amassed a ton of wins. Massive student loan forgiveness, which is incomplete due to Republican and SCOTUS interference, but has still made some huge wins. Funding for all sorts of social programs like food for underprivileged kids, large reduction of costs for Medicare, fixed some of the worst pharmaceutical gouging including capping insulin prices, increased taxes on the rich, etc.
You mentioned him squashing the rail union strike, but IIRC shortly after, Biden got them almost all of what they wanted.
And I'm sure you're tired of hearing it, but he's the only candidate in play that can win against Trump. And despite the popular nihilistic opinion spouted on lemmy, there actually is a massive difference between the two parties right now. It is not hyperbole when we say this election is about democracy vs fascism. Republicans are taking away women's rights, attempting to take away LGBT rights, demonizing immigrants to a degree that is reminiscent of Nazi Germany. And again, that is not hyperbole.
Also, I see the argument here that letting the Dems fail will push them further left. I don't buy that argument in the slightest. If anything, it will drive them further to the right, to capture the non-fanaticized conservatives who want to jump ship as MAGA steers them into the storm.
I'm not saying Biden is perfect. He's a corporate dem, continues support for Isreal, and is far too old for comfort. But he's the best we have for this election. And honestly, besides not yanking support for Isreal, he has been doing a great job in a very difficult era.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. And yes, he's been more progressive than Obama on a lot of things, not that that's saying much.
I'll have to look into him getting the rail workers what they wanted after the dust settled, I hadn't heard about that.
I'm not sure how his loss would push the Dems further right, care to elaborate? In 2016 just having Bernie debating with the other candidates pushed the conversation a little left. And I think the loss he's about to face might help wake up the Dems in terms of pushing that Overton window. I share your concerns about Christo fascism etc but I feel like him winning would only make Dems more complacent in giving zero shits about anyone but the donor class. And I also see the Republican party fracturing so I'm not as convinced that the country will instantly begin to burn if Trump wins again. It won't be better for it for four years, but I'm not compelled by the democracy is on the line and everyone is going to go into handmaid's tale territory argument. That's putting words in your mouth I just don't have time to reword it right now.
To that point, and I'm not saying you agree with their approach, the Dems betrayed their "party of democracy" rhetoric the minute they decided to conduct this campaign the way they did by rigging the primary and refusing to let Señor Senile debate. The reason he's the only one who can beat Trump (which at this point is true) isn't necessarily because he would've won in the primary or that he's someone people genuinely believe is the most fit for the job. I'd bet my balls to a barn dance that if one of the other candidates would have won in the primary against Biden, this election would be a shoe in for Dems. And I could say that about more than one of the candidates who wanted to debate in the primaries. Edit: or even be allowed on the damn ballot.
And then there's well, the fact that I just can't bring myself to vote for a guy who's enabled this genocide the way he has. I've heard people say that no matter what he does at this point, that one issue is why they refuse to vote for him under any circumstances, and I don't blame them. I don't know how I'll feel when the time actually comes, but my heart physically hurts at the thought of helping him in any way.
Edit: Bernie in 2020 debates. And a word.
My response was to your final paragraph. People resent Biden because of Gaza and because of the idiotic way the Democratic brass look down their noses at, and gaslight, the American people. This administration has essentially tried to tell us things aren't that bad when people who should have a solid middle class life are watching their credit card debt pile up. For another example, Hilary Clinton was on I think Seth Myers' show and when he mentioned people being hesitant to vote for Biden again, her response was a condescending "get over yourselves". That is the aspect of the top democratic leadership that not only liberals despise, but conservatives see as evidence of how the left is a bunch of elites with no regard for the common folk. There's a better descriptor that I can't think of at this early hour, but yeah. Those things are the cause of the resentment toward this administration, and I'd wager toward the Democratic party itself.
To be clear, I don't think you're wrong on your other points for the most part, but that last paragraph is missing the point IMO. Edit: I apologized.