this post was submitted on 14 May 2026
11 points (100.0% liked)

technology

24373 readers
178 users here now

On the road to fully automated luxury gay space communism.

Spreading Linux propaganda since 2020

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] jack@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

People get real undialectical on here sometimes

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Euros have done this several times before and backtracked. I think it will stick this time but I can't fault anyone for being skeptical.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It could even fail. There's no guarantee that the attempt to pursue it will succeed. My general point is that they are sincerely pursuing it, there is a real contradiction within the imperial core between these two sides and pulling on the two threads to help it unravel is better than denying its existence.

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago

It is a real force but the governments are complex systems with a lot of internal contradictions. Just as a kingdom can fall for want of a horseshoe nail a push for digital sovereignty can fail for want to read a .doc file. Most people, especially anyone who has used floss inside of an organization using microsoft, have personal experience with these many micro contradictions and none with the geopolitical macroscale ones so the "can never happen" attitude is unsurprising even if unimaginative.

[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Who else will EU buy weapons and energy from? There is nowhere else to go, they are still deluding themselves that they can be a little autarky and the energy crisis will disappear and the USA will stop destroying all of its competitors. USA has them in a vice grip because they will never go to Russia and China, they are too invested in the US relationship and too deep in white supremacist ideology due to their hundreds of years of being colonizers, which they still have never paid any sort of reparations on. The whole point is that Europe is on the "winning team" the "garden", they will never join the "jungle" because they are the poor, the undeveloped, etc. You have to account for this material reality and ideology in the European elite and masses.

Dialectical is when we believe the hyperbolic statements of Bourgeois Liberal states at face value? How many times have these feckless and powerless liars said they would do this and reject Trump and all that? A thousand. Remember Greenland? They were all rattling their sabers against the USA it was so cute. Meanwhile they assist in genocide in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Venezuela. They can simply fuck off with their lies, they are fully locked in with the imperialist interests. They are part of the imperialist blob. They will not 'go their own way' until the Empire is destroyed and there's no plunder to be gained from the global south any longer. As long as USA is the guy with the big stick going around mugging people, they are on that team, until the that guy with the big stick loses. Only then will they abandon the sinking ship.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dialectical is when we believe the hyperbolic statements of Bourgeois Liberal states at face value?

I don't really care at all what current Euro leadership says. Outside of a little squawking form Spain and Ireland, they're all in the tank for imperialism. Their dialogue does not factor into my analysis because they will not matter in a very short span of time.

Who else will EU buy weapons and energy from? There is nowhere else to go, they are still deluding themselves that they can be a little autarky and the energy crisis will disappear and the USA will stop destroying all of its competitors. USA has them in a vice grip because they will never go to Russia and China

Well, you answer your question in the next sentence. Eventually, they will go to Russia and China. It's obviously not so impossible since they were doing it five years ago.

The whole point is that Europe is on the "winning team" the "garden", they will never join the "jungle" because they are the poor, the undeveloped, etc. You have to account for this material reality and ideology in the European elite and masses.

But which way is global development moving? Europe and the US get less developed every day while the global south gets more. Europeans know they're no garden because it's only been 80 years since an outside power (the US) had to step and force them to stop killing each other in history's bloodiest wars over and over again. The material reality that matters is that imperialism gave Europeans across social classes a very good deal for a very long time, but now that deal has stopped paying out. Neither the European working class nor the bulk of the capitalist class are getting anything but fucked by this relationship these days.

As long as USA is the guy with the big stick going around mugging people, they are on that team, until the that guy with the big stick loses. Only then will they abandon the sinking ship.

We're watching the US's big stick fail miserably right now and blow up in Europe's face. How are we not at the "abandon ship" point yet?

To actually lay out my argument instead of just my lazy comment from before:

The current neoliberal leadership of Europe is dead. It is a shambling corpse with only a few years left before it comes apart. It has not only (and obviously) utterly failed to deliver for the European masses, but it is not miserably failing to deliver for the European capitalists. The European neoliberal imperial internship has lead to the US picking apart the EU's industrial economy, sidelining Euro capitalists and blowing up their ability to secure the segment of global profits they were supposed to get as part of this deal. What is the base of their power then besides simple momentum? A political leadership with no class to support them!

Will neoliberals be in power in the UK, France, Italy, or Spain five years from now? I think we can safely say, for the most part, no - you will get fascism or you will get some kind of anti-neoliberal leftism ranging from socdem to nearly communist. That'll be the Greens in the UK, a revitalized PSOE in Spain, LFI in France, etc, if they can beat their respective fascists. Both of these groups will want to change the relationship with the US for different reasons, but in both cases they want to extricate from the Ukraine disaster. We can see that Eastern Europe is (of course) already further along in this historical process, with the semiconservative socialistish parties doing well in Romania, Slovakia, parts of former Yugoslavia, etc. These parties are quite openly friendly with Russia (and China secondarily) while opposing the EU project and particularly the subjugation to US via Ukraine.

Europe's economy is a fucking disaster in ways that are quite obviously the fault of the US. The intentional draining of Germany's industry via the Ukraine war and the short-sighted buffoonery of the Iran war have obliterated the energy market so badly that there simply is not path to recovery under the current conditions. Europe basically has three paths forward: return to the grand European tradition of constantly being at barbaric war with each other and shrink into irrelevance on the world stage (fascism), pursue some genuine independence and sovereignty (socialism), or be transformed into a third world style comprador state on the losing end of unequal exchange. The US wants the third option, and it's certainly not impossible, but it's the hardest to achieve because it has no class support. There is no existing comprador bourgeoisie while there is still a very strong national/continental bourgeoisie. The working class is decently well organized and not likely to roll over. That option, therefore, produces conditions for class collaboration between workers and capitalists, which then leads back to either national bourgeois victory (fascism) or European proletarian victory (socialism).

Already all over Europe, political parties are in turmoil with venerable institutions collapsing and upstart anti-establishment of the left and right grasping for and approaching power. Europe's status quo as a junior imperial partner is already over. What's undialectical is projecting this obviously fractious, unstable, and declining system as eternal into the future. It's already done.