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Gen Zers' definition of financial success includes joining the top 1% — and they're really confident about making it (fortune.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by General_Effort@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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Hahahahaha

(Caveat: IDK if the polling company is reliable.)

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[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 97 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

From what I could track down, here is all the available data on the polling methodology:

The Empower “Secret to Success” study is based on online survey responses from 2,203 Americans ages 18+ fielded by Morning Consult from September 13-14, 2024. The survey is weighted to be nationally representative of U.S. adults (aged 18+).

It also comes not from a polling company, but from a company that provides financial news, and financial services. No potential conflict of interest there...

Basically, the data is near-worthless.

[-] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Gen Z’s financial ambitions, and the dissonance between their dreams and reality, honestly highlight a troubling cultural shift that I'm sure, if we're honest, we all recognize. This poll, while maybe not bulletproof in methodology, lines up with other findings from Credit Karma, other Morning Consult surveys, and academic sources like PLOS and Collabra: Psychology. The term "money dysphoria," used by financial therapists, gets to the heart of the issue, which is a mismatch between the paychecks, fame, and wealth many envision and the actual economic terrain we're navigating. The fact that more than half of Gen Z reportedly wants to be influencers points to a broader trend where social media distorts not only career goals but also broader ideas about value and success.

Researchers see Gen Z as unique—sometimes in ways worth celebrating, but more often in ways that are troubling. Every generation wrestles with the pressures of its time, but Gen Z is the only generation that spent critical childhood-development years under a spotlight powered by social algorithms, constantly fed by curated images and endless comparisons. It seems obvious this environment is going to shape approaches to work, wealth, and purpose, often in ways that are kind of adrift from reality. What stands out here isn’t just misplaced optimism; it’s the fallout of growing up in an ecosystem designed to blur the lines between aspiration and delusion.

This isn’t to pin dysfunction entirely on Z; after all, no one chooses the world they inherit. But the extent to which our formative years were shaped by this digital distortion makes the challenges uniquely sharp. Gen Z was effectively raised in a hall of mirrors. That's going to have an effect. And honestly, when I'm talking with from Gen Z about it, we tend to either completely agree and are pretty worried about it, or some people absolutely deny it and get pretty angry about it.

I think if you're honest with yourself and are in college, you can kind of look around your classrooms and see who is going to feel which way.

[-] Cruxifux@feddit.nl 10 points 2 weeks ago

Wait, half of Gen Z says they want to be an influencer? Where are you getting this info?

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm in Canada rather than the US, but I personally see it very little of it, except for those who are on the tail end of GenZ. In my experience, most of GenZ (with the possible exception of those still in high-school or early post-secondary) are primarily disgusted by the sort of opulent displays of weath common in influencer culture. If anything, I could see the ridiculously high numbers reflecting a distrust in the economy after living through multiple large financial crisis, and even-increasing costs of living moreso than a direct worship of weath. For example, if they assume a 5% annual increase in cost-of-living over the next 20 years, and want to be making the current equivalent of an 100k salary, they'll expect to need to make about 265k. If they worry that the economy could crash at any point, it wouldn't be weird for them to feel the need to aquire more weath faster to prepare. Thats not to say there is no worship of weath and fame, but thats also not new. Before the internet, it was reality tv, and before that, magazine and newspapers. I mean, look at Donald Trump even - he got where he is not because of an education or anything but because he used his existing fame to springboard him into power. Even before that, think of the worship of the British monarchy and the facination people have with their drama. The only new part is the algorithms, but their widespread use and monitization only really caught the tail-end of GenZ when they were young and its mostly Gen Alpha growing up knowing nothing else.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Basically, the data is near-worthless.

no.... it's worth shitloads. Just not to the people reading it. It's worth it to the people that pay Fortune to run adds like these to get rubes trying to day trade on the markets or some other shit like that.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

They've been doing polls since at least the 2016 presidential election. I just don't know if they are any good.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It looks like with some of their other stuff, they do provide more methodology, but given that the only methodology provided here is the fact that it was an online survey, and the sample size was 2203 (of very roughly 300,000,000) it doesn't give us much meaninful to go off of. Notably, they also exclude anyone under 18 in the polls (or attempt to, given that this is online with no indication of how their sample was selected) which is a significant portion of those the sample is meant to represent. Given that thats all we really know, we can't really get a meaninful idea of what the original data was, or how accurate the drawn conclusions are.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

A thought I had was, that this might be a paid online poll. The answers might reflect the true feelings of the demographic that makes it a hustle to respond to those. Anyway, from my personal experience, the results are not obviously wrong. I matured before influencer culture became big. To me, it was always people playing pretend; a form of online role-playing; another thing I never got into. I feel that those a bit younger, who grew up with influencer culture, simply did not develop a world model where that distinction exists. Of course, these topics don't come up in casual conversation, and on the internet you never really know someone's age.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

A thought I had was, that this might be a paid online poll. The answers might reflect the true feelings of the demographic that makes it a hustle to respond to those.

Its probably something like this, but theres a lot of more significant potential pitfalls with an online poll. For example, at least in my circles, is basically common knowledge that its a good idea to take these polls whenever you get the chance, but answer what they want to hear so you don't get screened out. Similarly, theres lying about age. Even just how the question was asked could have a huge impact; "How much will you have to earn to be financially successful?" is a different question to "how much do you have to earn to be financially successful?" given that one implies future or continued wealth while the other implies current costs. But again, none of this was specified, so we're making assumptions - instead we should take only the information that was provided. So little is given, it could have been run by, for example, emailing their mailing list subscriber with the poll and offering a raffle entry for each submission, or hell, even something like a Twitter poll. That would still match their given methodology.

Anyway, from my personal experience, the results are not obviously wrong. I matured before influencer culture became big. To me, it was always people playing pretend; a form of online role-playing; another thing I never got into. I feel that those a bit younger, who grew up with influencer culture, simply did not develop a world model where that distinction exists. Of course, these topics don't come up in casual conversation, and on the internet you never really know someone's age.

For claification, I'm Canadian, not American, so my experiences will be a bit different. That said, I've experienced this some with Gen Alpha, but not really GenZ. Keep in mind, GenZ is at least age 15, and averaging around 23: still young, but already starting to come to terms with income and costs of living. Most people this age are from before the current influencer economy, and even then, they are going out into the world now and usually learning the value of money quickly. If anything, I think the ridiculously high number given in the poll (if taken seriously) is just as much or more an indication of the expectations for rising costs of living, instability, and inflation. GenZ is old enough to understand these concepts and have seen how they affected the world, likely in 2008, and definately during covid. Its not like this sort of toxic worship of money is anything new or unique either - think of the reality shows that were popular before they moved to the internet, for example, and all the tabloids and drama that teens and young adults followed even before that.

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 75 points 2 weeks ago

I remember when all these outlets were endlessly claiming that Millennials believed a whole bunch of stupid shit that we didn’t.

It never ends, does it?

[-] LittleBorat3@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

No it never ends, do you still prefer to live in your mom's basement because you love it so much?

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 3 points 2 weeks ago

You know it. Just like I prefer having massive student debt and no degree to show for it. 😎

[-] user224 4 points 2 weeks ago

So, how are your finger-embedded diamonds?

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, which is why I added the caveat. Still, it is based on polling data.

[-] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

"a recent survey from financial firm Empower"

Not a major polling firm, and also not necessarily an unbiased firm.

[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

And not a poll.

[-] Zier@fedia.io 55 points 2 weeks ago

Remember, you are required to spend your whole life pursuing extreme wealth and spend enormous amounts of money on the economy. This is what's 'best' for the economy. No one cares about your happiness. When you are 50, you will realize that you hate all of this, money is not that important, you just made other people rich and you are lonely. You wasted your life going after a fallacy. And you never became an oligarch.

[-] rowdyrockets@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

50? I’m going on 30 and I realized that 3 years ago. Hopefully more and more younger folk realize sooner and sooner.

[-] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 47 points 2 weeks ago

Life hasn't completely crush their ambitions yet. Their second economic collapse and my 4th should snuff out the light.

[-] aceshigh@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago

Social media and insta people are to blame. And these folks aren’t even rich, they rent everything.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago

Would anyone be surprised if there were literally zero human beings invovled in this story?

[-] Allonzee@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I mean, that's by design.

Americans have been trained to see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires from birth for half a century though oligarch captured public education and their for profit media. It's quite useful, as those successfully deluded advocate against their own interests, like hating progressive taxation they'd benefit from as citizens, but would have to pay when, lol, they're the rich ones at some undisclosed point in the future.

It's why we're a bunch of rugged individuals at each other's throats for oligarch scraps and are actively hostile towards the concept of ever being a society. So long as they've convinced us to fight one another hoping to beat our fellow citizens and "win," as capitalism demands, we'll never collectively demand equity.

Fortunately for theoretical future generations born into this greed/exploitation trap, oligarch made climate change cannot be bribed, discredited, disappeared, cut in, or deluded into playing ball.

Reality will assert itself, and quite violently going by the climate scientist's projections and our species apparent lack of any sense of self preservation.

[-] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 2 weeks ago

Just as brainwashed as the boomers that always vote Republican. Talked to so many boomers in the 90s and 00s that genuinely believed voting for Republican laws that hurt themselves was the right thing to do, because some day they'd be the rich ones... They're young enough to learn yet, hopefully.

[-] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 2 weeks ago

Somewhere between gen-z and millenial here:

Financial success for me is having a home and food and medical care for me and my partner, and no, I am not convinced at all we will be able to sustain this

[-] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 weeks ago

I hear you there. It's a frighteningly low bar when basic life survival stuff doesn't seem sustainable.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Similar age and yeah it’s a stable and secure life for my wife and I in which the choice to not have children is fully ours instead of being something we’re financially grateful for.

We were close thanks to being educated professionals but now we’re headed off on a wildly risky flight to living in a state that’s less likely to legislate our rights away.

[-] credo@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago

They are all going to influence each other on Youtube.

[-] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Just a single dollar bill, and everyone gets it for one day and can only spend it on another influencer. Reminds me of those dudes in college that are convinced it is ok that they are failing, because eventually people are going to pay millions to watch a stream of them playing video games in their filthy rooms. 🤣

[-] Geobloke@lemm.ee 18 points 2 weeks ago

To be fair, they'll probably need that to buy a house

[-] socsa@piefed.social 15 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly what we need, another generation of temporary embarrassed millionaires

[-] adp1314@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

I was recently forced to spend time with some gen Z people, and there was a girl who would go on and on about how her ex would rake in something like $20k a month from his tiktok channel. I think kids just caught on that you can be dumb as a brick, morally a piece of shit, and remarkably untalented, but if you get lucky and build a following online you'll realize success that just wasn't available before the modern internet era

[-] Paddzr@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Not to sounds pessimistic... But I bet it's BS. Same way all these women make money on only fans?

Fake it till you make it.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 2 weeks ago

Good luck with that, idiots. Enjoy an entire wasted life of being a temporarily embarrassed billionaire.

[-] Free_Opinions@feddit.uk -2 points 2 weeks ago

Why does it make someone an idiot if they wish to be a millionaire?

[-] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 4 points 2 weeks ago

It doesn't unless that's your only goal. Having wealth gives you a lot of flexibility and potential, but it is not a good in itself. It can be used for good or evil, and it may require great sacrifice to attain it.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

The idiotic things are:

to make it the measure of financial success.
to believe you can make it.

If that's your definition of financial success, you - almost certainly - will not be successful. If you are on track for, say, an Ivy League education, then you have a realistic chance, with the right degree. For most people, it will be clear by age 18 whether the chance is realistic or not.

[-] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Millionaire isn’t 1%. Everyone with a 401(k) in their 60s is one. It’s younger if you count assets like houses.

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[-] enbyecho@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

WTF. I thought y'all were smarter than that.

Dammit.

[-] whithom@discuss.online 2 points 2 weeks ago

With the current education system? They tricked you!!

[-] nifty@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

More than half will probably never get to mortgage a house, let alone own it one day or have enough for retirement. Delulu babies.

[-] irotsoma@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

That's not a gen Z thing. It's just that Millennial and Gen X didn't have that really as a possibility if they weren't born rich. Now that conservative capitalists are taking power in a time where the majority of households are lower class. So, they're pushing that narrative again so that people won't try to bring back the middle class with rich people's money and instead compete with each other for what little they have.

[-] skozzii@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 weeks ago

Some more temporarily displaced billionaires.

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

fuck all of them

[-] whithom@discuss.online 3 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck everyone

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

Have to wonder if this is an issue of demographic cohort, or just age. Millennials are old enough to have an idea of how much they actually need.

Zoomers might be overestimating things

[-] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Or maybe Z knows something about inflation that everyone else doesn't lol

That might be minimum wage in two decades who knows

[-] nickwitha_k 2 points 2 weeks ago

That might be minimum wage in two decades who knows

Living wage? Maybe-to-probably. Minimum wage? Doubtful.

[-] THB@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

For some inexplicable reason, we just voted against a minimum wage increase here in California.

[-] nickwitha_k 2 points 2 weeks ago

And to maintain slavery. It's really frustrating.

[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

So everyone thinks they'll be in the top 1%. Brilliant thinking right there.

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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024

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