this post was submitted on 14 May 2026
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[–] hello_hello@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If this doesn't translate to billions (yes I mean billions) in funding for KDE/GNOME and bridging the desktop gap then I'm not biting (especially KDE, they've been doing amazing work given even just a tiny fraction of the revenue they deserve)

I hope they don't act like tourists and never realize that they have an obligation to contribute back.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

People here keep saying it's never going to happen but I'm telling you the European move towards independence from the US is very real. It's going to take a couple decades, maybe more, but they're sincerely pursuing it.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

People get real undialectical on here sometimes

[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Who else will EU buy weapons and energy from? There is nowhere else to go, they are still deluding themselves that they can be a little autarky and the energy crisis will disappear and the USA will stop destroying all of its competitors. USA has them in a vice grip because they will never go to Russia and China, they are too invested in the US relationship and too deep in white supremacist ideology due to their hundreds of years of being colonizers, which they still have never paid any sort of reparations on. The whole point is that Europe is on the "winning team" the "garden", they will never join the "jungle" because they are the poor, the undeveloped, etc. You have to account for this material reality and ideology in the European elite and masses.

Dialectical is when we believe the hyperbolic statements of Bourgeois Liberal states at face value? How many times have these feckless and powerless liars said they would do this and reject Trump and all that? A thousand. Remember Greenland? They were all rattling their sabers against the USA it was so cute. Meanwhile they assist in genocide in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Venezuela. They can simply fuck off with their lies, they are fully locked in with the imperialist interests. They are part of the imperialist blob. They will not 'go their own way' until the Empire is destroyed and there's no plunder to be gained from the global south any longer. As long as USA is the guy with the big stick going around mugging people, they are on that team, until the that guy with the big stick loses. Only then will they abandon the sinking ship.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Dialectical is when we believe the hyperbolic statements of Bourgeois Liberal states at face value?

I don't really care at all what current Euro leadership says. Outside of a little squawking form Spain and Ireland, they're all in the tank for imperialism. Their dialogue does not factor into my analysis because they will not matter in a very short span of time.

Who else will EU buy weapons and energy from? There is nowhere else to go, they are still deluding themselves that they can be a little autarky and the energy crisis will disappear and the USA will stop destroying all of its competitors. USA has them in a vice grip because they will never go to Russia and China

Well, you answer your question in the next sentence. Eventually, they will go to Russia and China. It's obviously not so impossible since they were doing it five years ago.

The whole point is that Europe is on the "winning team" the "garden", they will never join the "jungle" because they are the poor, the undeveloped, etc. You have to account for this material reality and ideology in the European elite and masses.

But which way is global development moving? Europe and the US get less developed every day while the global south gets more. Europeans know they're no garden because it's only been 80 years since an outside power (the US) had to step and force them to stop killing each other in history's bloodiest wars over and over again. The material reality that matters is that imperialism gave Europeans across social classes a very good deal for a very long time, but now that deal has stopped paying out. Neither the European working class nor the bulk of the capitalist class are getting anything but fucked by this relationship these days.

As long as USA is the guy with the big stick going around mugging people, they are on that team, until the that guy with the big stick loses. Only then will they abandon the sinking ship.

We're watching the US's big stick fail miserably right now and blow up in Europe's face. How are we not at the "abandon ship" point yet?

To actually lay out my argument instead of just my lazy comment from before:

The current neoliberal leadership of Europe is dead. It is a shambling corpse with only a few years left before it comes apart. It has not only (and obviously) utterly failed to deliver for the European masses, but it is not miserably failing to deliver for the European capitalists. The European neoliberal imperial internship has lead to the US picking apart the EU's industrial economy, sidelining Euro capitalists and blowing up their ability to secure the segment of global profits they were supposed to get as part of this deal. What is the base of their power then besides simple momentum? A political leadership with no class to support them!

Will neoliberals be in power in the UK, France, Italy, or Spain five years from now? I think we can safely say, for the most part, no - you will get fascism or you will get some kind of anti-neoliberal leftism ranging from socdem to nearly communist. That'll be the Greens in the UK, a revitalized PSOE in Spain, LFI in France, etc, if they can beat their respective fascists. Both of these groups will want to change the relationship with the US for different reasons, but in both cases they want to extricate from the Ukraine disaster. We can see that Eastern Europe is (of course) already further along in this historical process, with the semiconservative socialistish parties doing well in Romania, Slovakia, parts of former Yugoslavia, etc. These parties are quite openly friendly with Russia (and China secondarily) while opposing the EU project and particularly the subjugation to US via Ukraine.

Europe's economy is a fucking disaster in ways that are quite obviously the fault of the US. The intentional draining of Germany's industry via the Ukraine war and the short-sighted buffoonery of the Iran war have obliterated the energy market so badly that there simply is not path to recovery under the current conditions. Europe basically has three paths forward: return to the grand European tradition of constantly being at barbaric war with each other and shrink into irrelevance on the world stage (fascism), pursue some genuine independence and sovereignty (socialism), or be transformed into a third world style comprador state on the losing end of unequal exchange. The US wants the third option, and it's certainly not impossible, but it's the hardest to achieve because it has no class support. There is no existing comprador bourgeoisie while there is still a very strong national/continental bourgeoisie. The working class is decently well organized and not likely to roll over. That option, therefore, produces conditions for class collaboration between workers and capitalists, which then leads back to either national bourgeois victory (fascism) or European proletarian victory (socialism).

Already all over Europe, political parties are in turmoil with venerable institutions collapsing and upstart anti-establishment of the left and right grasping for and approaching power. Europe's status quo as a junior imperial partner is already over. What's undialectical is projecting this obviously fractious, unstable, and declining system as eternal into the future. It's already done.

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Euros have done this several times before and backtracked. I think it will stick this time but I can't fault anyone for being skeptical.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It could even fail. There's no guarantee that the attempt to pursue it will succeed. My general point is that they are sincerely pursuing it, there is a real contradiction within the imperial core between these two sides and pulling on the two threads to help it unravel is better than denying its existence.

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago

It is a real force but the governments are complex systems with a lot of internal contradictions. Just as a kingdom can fall for want of a horseshoe nail a push for digital sovereignty can fail for want to read a .doc file. Most people, especially anyone who has used floss inside of an organization using microsoft, have personal experience with these many micro contradictions and none with the geopolitical macroscale ones so the "can never happen" attitude is unsurprising even if unimaginative.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago

Nah, the sentiment will bounce violently back in the other direction the minute Trump is out of office, even if the new Democratic or not-Trump Republican president continues or even intensifies the US plunder of Europe

Europeans suffer from what I call racism-induced mass economic amnesia

[–] MattEagle@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago (34 children)

That doesn't really seem to line up with the reality of their new US energy dependence and consolidation of the EU apparatus. I suspect any notion of a break within the imperial bloc is political theatre to placate the citizenry.

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[–] UmbraVivi@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Friedrich Merz is such a pathetic, servile worm that he would rather kill himself than defy the US. Maybe the next German government (probably not tho)

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Before that, he would rather indirectly kill millions of Germans by privatizing health care more and more and getting rid of social security. The German social Democrats and the Greens would do the same or worse, if they win the next elections. Neither a popular front nor a national front (hypothetically) is currently possible in Germany, because the burgoise powers are not actually convinced, that fascism (German or US) is a bad thing. The way forward is to build actual working class power.

[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

by the time they are done 'moving away' from the USA it will be too late, they'll be drained dry and made into a tourism spot for Americans. Energy seals the deal, they have none and everyone they tried to get it from got blown up by American wars so America is the only provider left, and this advantage will be pressed. Copper is coming out of the walls to pay for US backed wars, and then the dry husks will be tossed aside and used as tax havens and tourism spots. France is probably the one nation in the entire EU with a chance of partially mitigating this due to nuclear energy, but they would need to triple down on that immediately.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

i wanna see them try to blow up china when they start selling solar panels to europeans.

[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

they'll just pull some shit in Taiwan like landing a ton of Patriot systems and a nuke, forcing China to start a war to respond. Then they'll rope the EU into their sanctions game. They already complain about the "over production" of EV vehicles and Solar Panels.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

i figure they are already doing that tbh.

china would quietly sanction them and everyone will wonder why the fuck is the us economy on free fall.

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[–] SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Ok fun fact I learned not long ago: napoleonic France (and other European countries, mostly those invaded by napoleon) used to have a form of property tax that charged by the amount of street-facing windows a building had. Now there's a bunch of old buildings with bricked-up windows or just walls painted to look like windows because people didn't want to pay as much tax.

All I'm saying is, people paying through the nose for windows has a longer history than you might think.

[–] Sam@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago

Same thing with chimneys. As with the window tax the rich took it to the other extreme and put in as many windows or hearths as they could to show off.

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