this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2025
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No no no ... 5e 2024 sucks.
No, 5e sucks. And it's most obvious when you play on level 1. DnD is a superhero sim with paper cutouts for humans. When you leave out the super powers, then the characters can't really do anything. Like... at all.
Combat is DnD's only fleshed out system. Everything else is just "roll a D20" and sometimes add your proficiency modifier depending almost entirely on your class. Give me 20 different bards and I bet 18 of them will have a 90% overlap in the proficiencies they choose.
During combat, the wizard throws fireballs, the cleric casts spiritual weapon and the barbarian rages. During investigations the wizard rolls an investigation check, the cleric rolls an investigation check and the barbarian does nothing because they dumped wisdom.
That's why DnD sucks!
You might be playing it wrong.
During investigations Wizard checks the books in the library, references his own notes, chats up local researcher community. Creates and sends Arcane Eye, spreads his familiars, tries Clairvoyance.
Cleric visits a local church, talks to the priests and churchgoers, prays to the Divine, maybe convinces the town to join her in the crusade against the target and lits the town on fire, while villages attack the nobleman mansion looking for the culprit and plunder.
Barbarian goes to the local tavern to drink with the local guards. Helps local elder find his kitten. Maybe talks to a local hunter and they bond over a bear hunt they just finished, maybe about the beauty of wilderness... One things leads to another, a secret touch, a hidden look, a moment of courage, a stolen kiss... What I was talking about?
Yes, that's called roleplaying. And there's nothing, not a single line in any book that supports any of this!
Everything about this scenario works pretty much exactly the same if the Barbarian goes to the library and references his notes, the wizard visits the local church and convinces the town to to join their crusade and the cleric goes to the tavern, sves the kitten, drinks with the guards, etc. Every character does everything exactly the same.
Let me give you a counter example in a system that actually does this well. In The Dark Eye, the wizard goes to the local library because they have several talents and skills that help them find and organize information in books, the cleric talks to the local clergy who respect him du to his "social standing" value and "clergical vow" skill. The barbarian actually put some points into "carousing" which makes them a solid drinker and their "local contact" skill may give them a pointer towards the old lady with the cat problem.
I see what you're saying, but... To me that's okay? I don't need to follow the book for all that shiet? You don't need to overspecialize on your character sheet.
In DnD/Pathfinder you grab the Lore/Knowledge/etc skill for a wide range of actions. The nobility will respect your cleric because it's a cleric, has a symbol of the order, ecclesiastic rank from the roleplaying, but if she can't persuade for shiet, she'll loose that initial respect quickly.
Have you ever played Shadowrun? I think I left that system the moment my DM decided to reference table for jumping out of a riding car by / brand / speed / manoeuvre / skill level to determine my damage.
The Dark Eye is that German thingy, right? I never liked it as a system, it felt constraining. On the other hand, my favourite system is Fudge, so we might just like different things.
Agreed, Shadowrun overdoes it with its thousands of rules and The Dark Eye also has its problems. Especially when it comes to combat. But DnD is on the other side of that spectrum. It's just severely lacking any kind of character depth.
That's why I'm working on my own system trying to balance the complex, but meaningful character creatuon choices of system like Shadowrun and The Dark Eye with the combat of DnD.
And yes, it seems like we do have different preferences here. The only thing I always wonder is: Why do people who obviously prefer a rules light set of rules play something as rigid and overcomplicated as DnD. Wouldn't you find far more enjoyment in systems lile fate or savage worlds?
Because the entry barrier is low, a lot of groups playing DnD/Pathfinder, tons of content, it's mainstream, celebrities play it so the rules are shallowly known to a lot of people.
At least that's my take.
Fate is Fudge, and as I mentioned I prefer it over DnD
Dunno. In my 5e game the Sentinel, Guardian, and Consular get force powers.
In another 5e game the group piloted techs and fought giant monsters (Pacific Rim).
In a few months we will be running Return of the Living Dead 5e.
You just sound burnt out on the fantasy trope, not 5e.
So, what you're telling me is 5e works well for combat. Which is exactly what I wrote.
But combat isn't the only aspect of a tabletop roleplaying game. Far from it. Sure, if all you want to do is play out your superhero fantasy of killing ever bigger foes, then DnD works well enough I guess. But for me, that gets boring real fast. I want drama, mystery, social encounters, wilderness survival, interesting travelling etc. DnD does none of this.
A combat system is all that a TTRPG really is. There may be rules for travel, crafting, and skill checks .... but the games only real purpose is to set guidelines.
All of the things you have mentioned are campaign issues, not system issues. Mystery, social encounters, interesting traveling... that is ALL the responsibility of the person running the game. No one should need a random set of tables to roll on to tell them that "Colonel Mustard killed someone in the library with a candlestick".
Lol, what? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
You've either never left the DnD bubble, or you're just blatantly ignorant towards 90% of what tabletop roleplaying games are! Seriously, that's the shittiest shittake I've ever heard when it comes to TTRPGs. I seriously hope you're joking, but I'm afraid you're not.
At least a third of the TTRPG systems I play don't even have combat rules because it's just so irrelevant in these systems. And then there's the vast majority of systems like Vampires: The Masquerade, Call of Cuthulu, fate, etc. where conbat exists, but is almost completely irrelevant. I've played in several groups that go multiple sessions without a single combat encounter and it never felt lile combat was important or missing.
TLDR: Lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Some people will argue on the internet about anything.
Player 1 posts "this system sucks, it's nothing but combat, there are no travel events or mysteries"
Player 2 responds "That's not the system's issue, it is the Gamemaster's. A system does not create a murder mystery storyline, the gamemaster does. The system is just a ruleset"
Player 1 basically responds "I play sessions all the time with no conbat, a third of the ttrpg systems I play dont even have conbat ... here I will name three systems that I dont think conbat is important in: one has a massively detailed conbat system with limitless power combinations where vampires literally fight werewolves, fae, and wizards, one has a conbat system so brutal that it can drive players insane, and one has an amazingly cinematic conbat system. lol u dumb and only know D&D, the GM can''t control the narrative ... it's the system that has to do it."
Player 2 Responds "Sure man, whatever"
Everything you just said is opinion and subjective.
The only thing that sucks here is you for believing that your opinion is a universal truth and the arrogance of believing that everyone else is wrong.
The only thing subjective here is the very first sentence. Everything else is either fact and enforced by the way DnD is designed or an example to illustrate said fact.
What exactly is subjective about the fact that DnD doesn't have any depth or variety when it comes to anything besides combat?
Oh, and before you answer. Homebrew and cinematic encounters are not part of DnD as a system and using them in your argument will only strengthen my point.