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submitted 1 year ago by n1729@lemmy.world to c/kde@lemmy.kde.social

Wayland. It comes up a lot: “Bug X fixed in the Plasma Wayland session.” “The Plasma Wayland session has now gained support for feature Y.” And it’s in the news quite a bit lately with the announcement that Fedora KDE is proposing to drop the Plasma X11 session for version 40 and only ship the Plasma Wayland session. I’ve read a lot of nervousness and fear about it lately. So today, let’s talk about it!

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[-] ExLisper@linux.community 11 points 1 year ago

has long plagued X11

The risk existed but did it plague X11? I never heard about any app logging keystrokes and sending theme somewhere. Where there any attacks using this? I don't think normal uses had to worry about it.

[-] ono@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The risk existed but did it plague X11?

Yes, and it still does. Practically every X11 installation is vulnerable.

(If you're nitpicking my use of the word plagued, though, note that I am talking about the vulnerability, not the exploit.)

I never heard about any app logging keystrokes and sending theme somewhere.

That's because of a variety of external factors, including:

  • X11 desktops aren't common enough to be priority malware targets, yet.
  • People who run only open-source software typically get it from trustworthy channels, like their OS distro's package repository.
  • Devices likely to attract malware, such as game consoles and mobile phones, have avoided X11. (Android phones and Steam Deck are examples.) This is no accident; lack of app isolation was a factor in that decision.

I don’t think normal uses had to worry about it.

We've been lucky so far, in that our circumstances have kept us mostly safe. However: Linux malware is on the rise. Commercial games, both on their own and through anti-cheat systems, are making opaque software more common on our desktops. Flathub is working on paid apps, which could likewise create malware opportunities that weren't there before. The Epic Game Store has already been caught collecting data from other apps, so the intent is clearly present already.

It's generally just a matter of time before exploitable systems become exploited systems. We would do well to close the door on unauthorized key logging, clipboard snooping, screen scraping, and input injection.

[-] ExLisper@linux.community -4 points 1 year ago

And all the arguments are like this. "It's good to use it", "it has features", "it's better code". But it's never "it has essential features that people need". Because it doesn't. If it did people would use it.

[-] nora@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It does for me. For some reason my touchpad has really high scroll sensitivity with libinput. It's borderline unusable. The only desktop environment that exposes the ability to change this sensitivity is plasma Wayland. AFAIK there's technical reasons it can't be done on xorg without hacky workarounds. This is the killer feature for me.

In addition both plasma and gnome only have 1:1 touchpad gestures on their Wayland sessions. Obviously I could use third party tools for trackpad gestures under x11 but those aren't 1:1.

Also while I'm aware that fractional scaling on Wayland is a mess and hacky but I still find the fractional scaling implementation on KDE Wayland to be the best, followed by KDE on xorg. I need fractional scaling for things to be appropriate sizes on my laptop screen.

For my desktop I still use x11 because of nvidia but I would definitely benefit from the multi monitor improvements under Wayland since I have two monitors of differing refresh rates and it causes issues.

[-] ExLisper@linux.community -5 points 1 year ago
[-] semperverus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nope, I also use it for many of these things. They're not alone by a long shot.

If you want to continue to use X11, you are free to simply not update your machine any further. It's unlikely you value security, so this shouldn't be an issue for you.

[-] ExLisper@linux.community -1 points 1 year ago

You clearly don't understand what 1% is. Do you think it means it just one person?

And you're equally clueless about my entire argument here.

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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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