Atheism

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I'm an atheist. Although I was raised in the Christian church of my people, I slowly progressed to agnosticism in my teens and from there to atheism by my mid-twenties.

When my marriage began to approach its long-overdue end, my then-wife (not an atheist, but not a Christian either; she was basically ignorant on the whole subject) decided that we should join a church as a family - not necessarily to avoid the split, but so that we would maintain a family connection even if we got divorced. I didn't oppose the idea, although I did note that there were some churches that I wouldn't be willing to join. As it worked out, we ended up joining a local Unitarian Universalist church. I was fine with that, as they are explicitly open to agnostics and atheists (and pretty much anything else, as far as I could tell).

I rather enjoyed the church, even if I'd have preferred to have slept in on Sundays. It was nice to have a regular social event; my then-wife had pretty much kept us all clear of any social activities. The congregation were pleasant people, albeit mostly older, affluent, and white. There were enough children for several Sunday school classes, though. The doctrine was liberal and tolerant. I very much liked the open pulpit for "prayers and concerns"; I'm very comfortable with public speaking, so I went up when the spirit moved me (so to speak). I volunteered at the church library and as a Sunday school teacher. My son went to Sunday school and very much enjoyed it. He also attended the OWLS program and got a lot out of it. I joined the writing group at the church as well.

But there were things that bothered me.

It felt as if the one black family that attended the church were being, well, used. They were always placed in the first pew right in front of the pulpit, as if they were on display. They were asked to address the congregation from the pulpit almost every week. I couldn't shake the impression that they weren't entirely comfortable with that. What's more, the church spent two YEARS discussing putting up a "black lives matter" banner; much of the discussion focused on how to get the Mayor and the Chief of Police to attend the banner-hanging ceremony, and get maximum coverage on the news. At a meeting on the subject I couldn't resist pointing out that two years of discussion was two years of police shooting black Americans every day.

The church leadership often spoke proudly of the UU ministers and members who put their lives on the line during the Civil Rights era. If they'd taken the same incredibly long deliberative approach that the church leadership was taking about the BLM banner (I said), we would STILL not have civil rights - which we basically don't, anyway. The black family spoke up and agreed with me. But the minister and other leaders quickly shut that down. They accused me of being a radical, of demanding that they become a dictatorship by forcing quick decisions. I wasn't allowed to speak again, and no changes were made.

I started speaking at the pulpit during "prayers and concerns" about the many wars that our government was waging all over the world, bombing the innocent and helpless (including children) every day using our tax dollars. I received a few kind replies from elderly members of the congregation (basically old hippies), but once again there was no action. It became more and more clear that these were people who were there to congratulate themselves on their enlightenment and profound goodness without actually doing much about it. I used to joke privately that their arms were all sprained from patting themselves on the backs.

There were a few other atheists in the congregation. We had meetings about once a month. Again, they were enjoyable - but it felt as if the leadership and the minister kept trying to shoehorn us into the category of "humanists", rather than atheists. The minister dropped in to those meetings occasionally, and I couldn't help but feel rather patronized.

For all their proclaimed tolerance, they seemed uncomfortable with out-and-out atheism. On the occasions that atheism was mentioned at all during a service, it was ALWAYS in conjunction with agnostics and humanists - as if we were a single indistinguishable group. And I couldn't help but notice that although they had flags hung in the church with symbols of many faiths, there were none representing atheism - or even humanism, for that matter!

Eventually my marriage ended. My ex kept attending for a year or so, but then she met a Catholic man (the holiest felon and domestic abuser you could ask to meet) and she stopped showing up and dropped out of our lives. My son and I kept attending church for a while, but when he graduated out of Sunday school we both agreed that we didn't feel at home there.

So we stopped going. I enjoyed being part of a group, but I wasn't comfortable with what I perceived as their hypocrisy. Nor did I like being treated as a second-class citizen. If I could find an atheist "church" or a more sincere UU one, I'd certainly consider going. But as it stood, I wasn't comfortable in that congregation.

Oh, one other thing: I was a regular panelist at a regional convention for 25 years. I spoke on all sorts of subjects, but the most popular one (I think) was a series of panels I proposed for atheists and theists to talk and better understand each other. It was a wonderful experience; standing-room-only crowds, and a wonderful atmosphere of mutual understanding. But at one of the panels, the then-President of American Atheists (who was also on the panel) was offended when I mentioned that I attended a UU church. He called me an "Uncle Tom" atheist with considerable scorn. In fairness, he was promoting a book he'd just had published, a typical "new atheist" tome insulting Christians; my advocacy of dialog and mutual understanding was pretty much diametrically opposed to his thesis. But after the panel a number of members of the audience rushed up to me enthusiastically to support my approach.

It's amusing that both a hardcore atheist and "tolerant" progressive Christians were uncomfortable that an atheist would attend a church!

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From alt.atheism on Usenet, many many years ago:

I have a friend who’s an atheist. Naturally as a Christian I’m very concerned for his soul. How can I witness to my atheist friend?

I have a sure-fire way for you to witness to your friend.

Go to your local lumber and hardware store. Purchase the following:

  • 1 nine-foot railroad tie or length 8”x8” lumber
  • 1 six-foot length of 2”x6”
  • 1 pack of heavy-duty 6” nails
  • 4 large spikes

I assume you can get a small shovel, a hammer, and a sharp-ended crowbar. If not, you’ll have to buy those too.

Invite your friend to meet you at a relatively private public area - a low hill surrounded by trees would be ideal. Arrive there an hour early. Dig a two-and-a-half foot deep hole at the top of the hill, just big enough for the railroad tie.

Next, nail the 2x6 perpendicularly onto the railroad tie, two and a half feet from one end. Use at least four heavy nails.

This next part may be a little tricky; you may want to have a (Christian) friend help you. Use the spikes to nail your wrists to the end of the 2x6, and you feet to the longer end of the protruding railroad tie. Make sure to put the spikes through your wrists, not your palms; if you put them through your palms they’ll rip through. You’ll flop forward and look ridiculous, and you won’t convert anybody.

Have a friend (or two) lift the railroad tie and slide the base into the hole you dug. They should make sure that the railroad tie stands up firmly; if necessary, they can pack some stones around the tie in the hole.

Have someone jab you firmly in the side of your abdomen with the sharpened crowbar, making a deep hole. By now, your atheist friend should have arrived.

Die.

Come back to life.

Your friend is now ready for conversion.

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by BobQuasit@beehaw.org to c/atheism@lemmy.ml
 
 

I was a regular panelist at a regional New England science fiction convention for decades. Part of my participation was suggesting panel topics every year. One topic I suggested was atheism, specifically conversations between theists and atheists.

Like many American atheists, I was raised as a Christian, evolving to agnosticism and finally atheism in my teens and twenties. I noticed over the years that although many atheists were quite familiar with religion in general and Christianity in particular, the reverse was NOT true - most Christians had never knowingly met an atheist, and what they "knew" about atheists in general were nightmares they learned from pastors and the media.

So I decided to encourage Christians and atheists to understand each other better by fostering dialog between them online. There were some great conversations; sadly, virtually all of them were deleted when the sites they were on were taken down.

Back to the atheism panels at the convention: They were HUGELY popular. Absolutely jammed, standing room only. The atmosphere was the most positive experience I ever had at panels there, and I'd been on hundreds of panels there over a quarter-century. People from the audience would rush up to the panel afterwards, bursting with enthusiasm. The next panel would have to push everyone out of the room.

But things were going on behind the scenes. New leadership came in to the con; highly enlightened leadership which made a particular point of their moral superiority. Bathrooms became gender-free. Food in the con suite and Green room became gluten-free, meat-free, and sugar-free - and, of course, taste-free. It was basically all the lentil casserole you could eat, which for many of us was absolutely none.

The attitude of the new leadership towards the atheism panels was particularly odd. They started by changing the panel descriptions from focusing on friendly conversation and mutual understanding between theists and atheists to confrontation; literally nothing more than arguments between the two groups. At which point they then cancelled all of the atheism panels, because "they're nothing but arguments".

The final revelation came to me through back channels. Programming and the con committee had deliberately decided to permanently cancel atheism as a topic because "Atheism only interests straight white males". Apart from the obvious hypocrisy of a self-proclaimed safe space con to justify banning a topic on that basis (and believe me, they allowed all sorts of topics of interest only to sub-groups), the claim wasn't even true! The audiences at the atheism panels were easily among the most diverse of any I ever saw.

Things went downhill for the con from there. Old-timers were ruthlessly purged. I was banned from Programming because I'd used a balloon as part of my cosplay which was latex; latex wasn't banned at the con, but that was still sufficient reason for excommunication. In a major scandal, it came out that some of the new leadership had been molesting and r@ping some attendees; the con leadership as a whole worked together to cover that up for as long as possible. Last I'd heard total attendance was down by 2/3.

But isn't it interesting that atheism was the one acceptable target for complete exclusion?

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Be safe, but be blasphemous as well, my fellow free-thinking heathens!

Keep passing the time in a meaningful way until you become worm food, my fellow creatures of star-stuff!

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Just a thought I had today that helped me deal with all the bad news I read this morning. Hope you get a laugh out of this.

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Religion professor Bradley Onishi, host of the "Spirit and Power" podcast, pointed out to Salon that there is "a long history of the evangelical subculture and the conservative Christian subcultures wanting to find mainstream legitimacy" by grabbing onto any celebrities they can claim are one of them. In the 90s and early 2000s, Onishi noted, evangelicals hyped everyone from U2 and Creed to Jessica Simpson and Katy Perry as "crossover Christian figures" who could sell the larger world on the idea that Christianity is hip and cool.

Brand, however, represents a disturbing twist to this saga: the willingness, in the era of Donald Trump, of right-wing Christians to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel to get this validation.

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Christian nationalism marches us closer to theocracy.

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I've been an atheist for 20+ years now (ex-catholic). Early in my atheism, followed the typical new-atheism route; reading Dawkins, watching tons of debates and interviews, participating in forums, joining atheist and rationalist groups. I went through an angry atheist phase, and then into a compassionate rationalist phase, seeking to understand religions and religious people, and to guide those who might be on the fence.

For many years I was optimistic about the future, thinking that rationality would spread and accelerate around the world. That newer generations would discard their religion and adopt progressive attitudes. More recently, and obviously due to current world events, I've lost hope in a brighter future. I suppose I set myself up for disappointment. I think you could make an argument that in the very long run (centuries), people are getting more educated, rational, and secular, but it seems clear that is not a guarantee in the short term. Looking at the rise of Christian nationalism in the US, misogynistic laws, anti-LGBT sentiments, the absolute loss of freedom for women in Afghanistan, etc; Even my close family are some mix of religious, conspiracy theorists, and anti-vaxxers. Evidently, humanity can easily regress decades worth of progress in an instant.

I'm sure we all have coping mechanisms, relationships and activities we enjoy, escapism to take our mind off things. If you put those aside, how do you deal with living in a religious, irrational world that will likely not improve in our lifetimes? Can we reason our way to a positive mindset? Is cope all we have?

Thanks in advance for your replies. I will read every single one of them.

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Common in evangelical theology is the concept of spiritual warfare: the idea that Satan and/or other demons are ever-present entities seeking to corrupt and destroy humans—especially the faithful. To resist succumbing to these forces requires constant vigilance and protection through prayer and strict adherence to the evangelical interpretation of biblical teachings. In this worldview, demonic possession or influence mirrors the evangelical concept of ideological corruption; both presume human weakness and vulnerability to external forces that can only be resisted through complete avoidance and submission to religious authority. Just as corrupting forces can enter through seemingly innocuous sources, such as reading, music, or even yoga, dangerous ideas can infiltrate through educational, political, and cultural discourse.

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Social media right now is an ocean of would-be propaganda for traditional heterosexual marriage. There are "tradwives," who cosplay submissive housewives on platforms like TikTok and Instagram. They overlap with "family vloggers," typically conservative Christians with large families who chronicle their daily lives online. The world of Christian right content online is far more interested in the maintenance and promotion of the patriarchal nuclear family than, say, the life of Jesus Christ, who died as one of those "childless cat ladies" Vance hates so much. Billionaire Peter Thiel has even funded a woman's magazine, meant to compete with Vogue or Cosmopolitan, that positions extremely conservative marriage as the only true path for women's lives.

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From the American Humanist Association: contact your Congresscritter - tell them to oppose H.R. 9495, the Stop Terror-Financing and Tax Penalties on American Hostages Act.

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In 2017, Rod of Iron Ministries splintered from the Unification Church, a Korean cult founded by Sean Moon’s father, Sun Myung Moon. Adherents are called Moonies and believe that Sun Myung Moon is the messiah. Two of Sun Myung Moon’s sons, Sean and Kook-jin, or Justin, founded Rod of Iron Ministries. The church has many of the same core beliefs as the Unification Church—but it claims that AR-15s are the “rod of iron” that Jesus wields in the Book of Revelation. Perhaps not coincidentally, Justin Moon founded Kahr Arms, a firearms manufacturer that produces a commemorative Donald Trump AR-15.

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by davel@lemmy.ml to c/atheism@lemmy.ml
 
 

Philosophy professor Hans-Georg Moeller, author of A Moral Fool: A Case for Amorality

For [Harris] the two things are the same: on the one hand objective moral truth (universal morality), and on the other hand scientific facts about what increases wellbeing and what doesn’t. […] I think the two things are very different from one another.

Just as religion is not something that depends on the existence of god, but is a specific social practice, a specific form of communication that relates to a certain unrealistic assumption; likewise morality is a specific discourse, a specific way of acting, that relates to and derives from making unrealistic assumptions about something that doesn’t exist.

Follow-up video: If Morality Exists Everything Is Permitted.

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From a former pastor who knows what the insiders talk about: a warning we would be foolish to ignore.

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Sick and tired of all the political content in forums like this? The authoritarians and theocrats are hoping you won't pay attention to how they're organizing to steal the next election.

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Since the advent of the Trump era, the evangelical landscape has undergone rapid shifts, often in turbulent and dangerous directions. To be sure, there are still plenty of evangelical premillennialists out there faithfully waiting on the Rapture. But their sequestering, defensive posture is becoming outmoded. Remarkably, the most prominent and powerful new leaders—the ones dedicated to fully recentering evangelical politics on Donald Trump, and who have grown their power and influence through their association with him—are overwhelmingly anti-Rapture. They believe Christians have a more active and forceful role to play in the end of the world.

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This is a repost from 2009.

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The march to theocracy continues.

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