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The original was posted on /r/learnjapanese by /u/SplinterOfChaos on 2023-11-19 22:43:59.
I don’t really understand the usage of receptive/causative forms in Japanese. In theory, it seems rather simple.
メンバーが 集まる。
キャプテンが メンバーを 集まらせる。
(from kokubunpou's article on せる・させる)
In practice, there seem to be cases where Japanese and English disagree about whether an action is causative or receptive, such as is discussed in this video (link).
The game was exciting. -> ワクワクする試合だった
Though they appear to claim that “The game was exciting” more literally translates to その野球の試合はワクワクさせるようなものだった. Incidentally, when I recently used 感動された to express having been moved by a video I saw, this was corrected to 感動する.
It also covers an example お茶が入りましたよ, but as they point out お茶が自分から入りました makes no sense and logically it could be said like so お茶は淹れられた. Indeed, that’s what I would have assumed it should be written as. I think after this example, they also suggest that 私が might sound self-centered or overly-proud (自己アピール)? Given my level of Japanese, I am suspect of my ability to understand basically anything so maybe my understanding of what they're saying is completely wrong; this is just what I gather from it.
It seems that my naive understanding that to する implies volition, intent, or at least independence was inaccurate because する is not just usable but preferable in many cases where the subject is not in control. I’m now wondering if receptive/causative is preferred when that point needs emphasis. For examples from Persona 5 Tactics which I just started playing:
(Context is probably not needed here, but the 準備 mentioned in this sentence is preparations for a wedding.)
連れてきた兵士や、捕らえたみんなを無茶に働かせて、その準備をさせてるんだ。()
Certainly, if the first half were みんなは働いて, it would give completely the wrong impression here and the use of みんなを and the causative form really emphasizes their lack of volition and I think the 準備をさせてる part makes it clear that the captives are being forced to do the preparations, not the soldiers themselves.
Anyway, there are some things clear to me and some things still murky.
I’m tempted to make a claim that from a Japanese perspective, emotions are things that you do, not things that are done to you. However, as kokubunpou’s article on れる・られる explains, in an example like “母の ことが 案じられる”, that this does express a lack of intention, but that it happens naturally, saying “そうするつもりがなくても自然に心配してしまうという意味を表します”. So it seems to not be quite as cut and dry as I’d like to think.
For the example of お茶が入りましたよ, the most I can understand from how it’s described in that video is that it might be undesirable to make oneself the subject of this sentence, but at the same time why the receptive form is not used, I do not understand. At the same time, I wonder if お茶が淹れられました isn't much better because it implies 私に so it's roughly as good as saying 私が?
If anyone has any resources discussing this topic in greater depth, I would be very appreciative.
EDIT: Okay, this doesn't explain why the receptive form isn't used, but it did occur to me while talking about this with a friend: If you have a guest over, you don't say "I made some coffee and went out and bought some snacks and arranged them on the table for you" because now you're imposing on your guest a little bit. You say "There's coffee if you want any, and some snacks, too." Maybe it's for similar reasons that one might want to say お茶が入りました?
