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[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 57 points 4 weeks ago

Yes. They should do it like NYC, where it's basically illegal to live on the street. The city is required by law to offer free housing at a certain quality level for anyone who needs it. It's not amazing but you get a door that locks and a security team, plus a bathroom.

If you don't want to sleep inside, you literally have to leave the city. It's not cheap but it works much better than letting people live in tents.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 16 points 4 weeks ago

Why the illegal part, though? People don’t really need an incentive to have shelter. It just punishes people who are struggling with even deeper issues.

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 31 points 4 weeks ago

Technically it's not illegal to sleep on the street, but there are sanitation rules regarding it. NYC has 8 million people. Any problem you can think of is magnified. It's literally a sanitary issue if you allow thousands of people to camp outside.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/26/nyregion/nyc-homeless-camp-bill-of-rights.html

In New York City, there are many rules on the books that have been used to restrict sleeping rough.

One is a piece of sanitation code that makes it unlawful to leave “any box, barrel, bale or merchandise or other movable property” or to erect “any shed, building or other obstruction” on “any public place.”

In city parks, it is illegal to “engage in camping, or erect or maintain a tent, shelter or camp” without a permit, or to be in a park at all between 1 a.m. and 6 a.m. unless posted rules state otherwise.

And on the property of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, both underground and in outdoor elevated subway stations, it is a form of banned disorderly conduct to “sleep or doze” in any manner that “may interfere” with the comfort of passengers. Nor may subway riders “lie down or place feet on the seat of a train, bus or platform bench or occupy more than one seat” or “place bags or personal items on seats” in ways that “impede the comfort of other passengers.”

Note that these rules also restrict people who have homes too. No one can have a party in the park after hours or take up a ton of space on the subway. Note also that you can sleep outside if you don't get in the way.

someone who did not violate any of those rules — say, someone who set a sleeping bag in an out-of-the-way spot under a highway overpass and did not put up any kind of shelter — was legally in the clear, at least in theory.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

Obviously they restrict people who have homes but that isn’t really relevant here, is it? Those people have choices, they get to choose to stay late in a park and the alternative for them is go home.

It’s not even close to the same thing.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

They didn't say it was the same thing, they just mentioned that it's not just to target the homeless.

As you said in another comment, things are often more complex than one thing or another.

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee -1 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly. These are necessary rules for a large city. No one can camp without a permit because then parks would be unusable. The same permit is for weddings, parties, whatever. It's pretty easy to get one for a few hours, but they will reject it if you ask to use the park every day and night.

People living outside in public parks and on streets is a really bad use of urban space. It takes public space and makes it private. That's why the city gives out free room in old hotels and shelters. It's a good thing people can't sleep wherever.

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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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