488
submitted 3 months ago by kalkulat@lemmy.world to c/science@lemmy.world
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] marcos@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

Because they have mass. They don't have "mass at rest", but they are never at rest anyway.

Do you remember that famous E = mc^2 equation? Everything that has energy has mass.

[-] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

But how do you apply this with Lorentz' transformation (i.e. relativistic factors)? You cannot approach the speed of light without considering relativism. It is known that p = gamma * m * v where p is momentum, gamma is the gamma factor given by sqrt(1/(1 - (v^2/c^2))), m is mass and v is velocity. If you study the gamma factor, you'll realize that it approaches infinite as v approaches c, the speed of light. Since we are actually dealing with light here, where v = c we are breaking the equation. Momentum cannot be defined for any mass which moves at the speed of light. It's asymptotic at that speed.

Also note that the same goes for E = mc^2. At relativistic speeds, also this equation needs to consider the gamma factor. So those classical equations break down for light.

The answer is that photons don't have mass, but they have energy. There is a good explanation a bit further up in this thread on how this is possible.

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

The one that you multiply with gamma is the rest mass, not the total mass.

To be short, p = m_0 * γ * v, where m_0 is the rest mass. Put that in your equation and look what happens.

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 1 points 3 months ago

So, since you cannot delete mass, do they just endlessly bounce / reflect off when hitting something, like the sail?

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

They can also be created or absorbed into something else. The mass of whatever absorbs them increases, and the mass of whatever is emitting them decreases when they do that.

The mass of everything is changing all the time. The thing that is constant is the rest mass.

[-] caden 5 points 3 months ago

The object doesn't absorb their mass, but rather their energy (which admittedly can be equated to a mass via a factor of c^2, but that's not actually what's happening). The change in momentum that results from a photon hitting you isn't caused by a change in m, it comes from a change in v. If mass were the quantity being transferred, solar sails wouldn't work to move anything; they would just sit there and get more massive as photons hit them.

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 3 points 3 months ago

That's how kamehamehas work, right?

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

So photons only have no mass if they don't move? Do they even exist if they don't move?

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Do they even exist if they don’t move?

No. Or, at least not from our point of view.

They only exist moving at the speed at light. All particles with no rest mass only exist moving at the speed of light.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)
[-] pyre@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago
[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Else they don't. We are talking quantum here.

this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
488 points (99.8% liked)

science

14948 readers
9 users here now

A community to post scientific articles, news, and civil discussion.

rule #1: be kind

<--- rules currently under construction, see current pinned post.

2024-11-11

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS