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Israeli historian produces vast database of war crimes in Gaza
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2024
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Every Israeli I've ever known born after 1980 has always supported multi state (typically a third for the Orthodox bc they're tired of doing military service for religious scholars' "safety") and hates all of this. I worked in intelligence with hundreds of ex-IDF primarily special forces and cyber. They had me in tears pointing out and sharing their disgust with settlements lurking over every Arab or bedouin shack in the middle of nowhere. Netanyahu was hanging on by a thread to avoid the popular opinion that he should be in prison. This was his 9/11, WMD, moment.
Every Israeli in America that I've known including some whose kids worked in the IDF, claim they are against what Israel is doing but gets strangely quiet if anyone else says it, or if others object to zionism in general, or zionist politicians. They seem to want to give lip service as pushback, and want that to be the end of the conversation. You'll see a few oppose the war on gaza, but then push hard for Josh Shapio, the zionist noobie governor, as Bidens VP choice, or hem and haw about violent settler actions. They claim they feel scared of antizionists targetting them for zionisms crimes and feel "unsafe" in the US, but they demand a lot more assurance of their own voice than they are willing to give to the anti violence-across-the-board concerns of Palestinian safety, like when students or muslim americans exercise their right of political free speech. Its a very wierd convolution of self serving and principled, and its a bit sick.
This guy the story is about seems to be truly principled, so my hat is off to him and I hope he doesnt suffer for gathering the info about those war crimes. But you know 100% know that he will be violently oppressed for doing this, right? He will probably be imprisoned and then killed.
Please take the time to read this, because you sound intelligent and like you give a shit about other people. I hope you can understand my perspective whether you agree. But I spent too long writing this, and nobody is clicking this deep, so this is all for you, Internet stranger (and hopefully new friend). So take the time to really think about this and not about how you're going to respond. At the end you'll even find an example of what taught me to listen to people even if I know I vehemently disagree but accept I'll never change their minds.
That's the point of the below.. Not to persuade you of an opinion (I haven't even shared my opinions in here)
Occupied West Bank and Gaza, and further settlement anywhere, are a different conversation than the existence of Israel, as well as whether it be in the Levant.
You're equivocating and intermingling what are two completely different concepts. And then intermingling your feelings and response.
When I asked all my progressive friends and colleagues what we can do (this was like..3 yrs ago?), they just got downtrodden and didn't have hopeful answers. (Sounds like what you've described as weird or I extrapolated as you suggesting "shifty". I think they're just shutdown by an emotional trigger (you said they hate the war.. Good guys, right?) combined with not having anything helpful to say)
They explain the conservative argument against Arab citizenship and voting rights is the resulting immediate "overthrow" of status quo bc of demographics, the subsequent changes to law, and the virtual destruction of Israel. They don't like that hence preference to multi state.
Perhaps you can challenge your intellectual biases and ask your friends directly about why they believe in the existence of "an" Israel or any Jewish state. That's a completely different conversation for them that perhaps you haven't seen that way.
Are you pro choice? Have you argued with an anti choice person? It's a fundamental belief to them that an embryo is a life. So your arguments don't matter to them the way they do to you. If your friends fundamentally believe they need a home and they're in one they have had and defended for nearly a century at this point, some Sephardim even longer, they can agree with a parallel of "the US stop invading Mexico" but not "the US should pack up and leave it's land behind to the indigenous that have survived" (and even that gives grace bc not all Palestinians are generational like native Americans)
Those are a lot of words and I don’t fully understand your point. But essentially the only way to peace is an end of the genocide, the apartheid and the Zionist colonization as a whole, with equal rights plus compensation for the native Palestinians and acknowledging the right of return of the displaced.