this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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Security/FULL self hosting? Looking for info before starting... (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 months ago by batmaniam@lemmy.world to c/homeassistant@lemmy.world
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Hi All,

Looking to steer into HA, but have some questions on how data is handled.

First, I don't mean the opt-in on the scant analytics. HA is very clear about that which is great. Awesome clear policy.

Second, I understand that "integrations", which use a device manufacturer's/services software/infrastructure, are outside scope here (although I do have some questions).

My goal is to find and work a system where no one knows when my lights are turning off and on, and is only on my hardware. IE: If the internet went down, but I was still connected to local wifi, can my HA still work?

The answer seems like a strong "yes", but I want to double check. I also want to make sure if I do use an integration that there's not an avenue for telemetry beyond that integration. IE: I don't want Spotify to gain access to what temperature I keep my house just because I want to play music.

I also have questions about the mobile app, but if the rest is truly locked down, I can navigate that.

I currently have an automated bog garden, but how I did it isn't really scalable. It's all modbus components with values passed to a local server to generate a dashboard. I'd like to expand to more actual "home" automation, and this seems like a great tool!

Thanks for any clarification.

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[–] Confuserated@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think the answer largely depends on the devices you use. Many devices require an internet connection to integrate with HA. Fortunately, each HA integration should list whether or not they can work locally.

Here are some device suggestions:

  • Bluetooth
  • Zigbee/Zwave/Zwhatever (local radio control). I don’t use this, but a lot of HA gripes I notice tend to center around support for these devices.
  • The HomeKit spec requires local only control at least as an option. HA can act as a HomeKit hub through the HomeKit Devices integration, so you don’t need any Apple hardware to use HomeKit devices.
  • Shelly makes great wifi and Bluetooth devices that work locally.
  • If you get wifi devices, put them on a separate network and/or have firewall rules that deny them internet access.
  • Use a VPN like Tailscale to access your HA from the internet, rather than exposing your HA instance to the internet through port forwarding.

Just as an example, I have Ecobee thermostats that are HomeKit compatible. Ecobee provides a cloud service, but I don’t use it at all, and my thermostats are denied internet access at the network level. They still work great through the HomeKit Devices integration.

Good luck!

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This is the correct answer. HA itself will work completely offline if you want. After that, you just need to make sure about the devices you're buying, and keep in mind, YOU control your own networking.

  • Zigbee will be all offline
  • Z-Wave...there was some greyish room there, but should be similar to Zigbee aside from firmware updates from certain makers
  • Matter CAN be totally offline
  • Tuya and similarly branded products: there are offline hacks, but I'd avoid.
  • WiFi/Bluetooth branded: avoid because they always require an app to even setup

Now, as I mentioned, you do control your network, and there are complex ways around these things, but if you want an OTG guarantee, go Zigbee to be sure.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

this is fantastic, I'm really excited. I do have a follow up on non-hardware integrations though. I know when I download anything on my phone, it's sharing all sorts of crap. Does HA allow integrations to do that? Going back to spotify example, I understand spotify can obviously track things on their end (what song they're giving me etc), but integrations don't let them see humidity in my basement right?

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If the integration has a cloud symbol you should assume it's sharing data. There is an unofficial integration "store" called HACS. Those integrations are not reviewed by Home Assistant so you cannot be sure even if it is marked as not being a cloud integration, unless you review the code it may do things you are unaware of. That said, many HACS integrations are worth considering.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Clear answer, thank you so much. Glad to hear there's a community. Worst case scenario I can always make it so a self-hosted voice to text triggers a script on a local device through a spotify API.

[–] JollyGreen_sasquatch@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

By syncing data, it isn't all data, just that it requires non-local resources, ie cloud/API, to function. You do have to look at each integration to see what it is doing, I would expect a Spotify integration is just hitting the Spotify API and maybe can interact with local devices that Spotify can stream to (ie a Chromecast)

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And it's explicitly "not all data"? I'm really impressed by the community, I'd assume if a Philips lightbulb was getting access to geolocation data via HA someone would have noticed.

[–] JollyGreen_sasquatch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If Phillips wrote the plugin it might but all the plugins I have looked at are written by the community. Most plugins are only polling based, so they are scraping data into HAs recorder plugin.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

thanks, the fact that there's this level of insight in the community makes me comfortable of going down this road. I'll keep an eye on integrations.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And all the code is available online because it's open source. You can make sure if you're really suspicious of something.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Glad to hear it, it's not so much suspicious as the principle. It's weird, I just hate the notion that if I bump up my thermostat a degree or two someone who I pay to give me music is keeping track.

[–] Badabinski@kbin.earth 2 points 4 months ago

Not all Bluetooth stuff requires an app. I have dozens of BLE sensors all around my house and I haven't downloaded anything for the majority of them. My BLE proxies pick them up automagically and I get a notification on my phone about a new detected device.

There are a few where you have to hack some bullshit, but I just avoided buying more of those once I learned that some of my shit needed that.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is PERFECT. Thank you. I need figure out Tailscale, I'm much better at the device level than networking, but your answers gave me what I'm looking for: Keep an eye on the device and how it's used and it's workable. Thank you!

[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 3 points 4 months ago

Tailscale is pretty easy, though I dislike the management console is via their servers/services.

Wireguard (which Tailscale uses) is fully self-hostable.