"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
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Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
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It was not "debunked" btw. Children were murdered during the massacres, including babies.
Of course, Tankies know this, but consider it a good thing, evidently.
If you attempt to contend anything, be sure to provide evidence and reputable sources that can support you.
Honestly I hate talking about Oct. 7th, both because it’s horrible to think about but also because it’s at the center of at least two opposing disinformation campaigns by the belligerents. Determining what actually happened and who did what is very challenging.
Regarding the killing of babies, the IDF’s policy to ignore collateral damage and even deliberately kill the Israeli hostages makes it difficult to attribute the deaths to any specific side. It may well be that Hamas killed babies but it may also be they were killed by the IDF. Perhaps both. It’s hard to trust anything that comes out of Israel since they have obstructed investigations by impartial groups like the UN. Certainly many claims by Hamas and Israeli officials have been debunked.
As far as sexual assault, it does seem it happened during the fight ~~but I haven’t seen evidence it was systematic or even necessarily widespread.~~ this last point might be wrong, it’s unclear so I’ll retract it for now.
This is not to say there weren’t war crimes committed by Hamas and allied groups on Oct. 7th, but since these events are currently being used as justification for an ongoing genocide, it’s important to stick to the known facts.
If you don't have any evidence to support your claims, then don't make any.
Please supply evidence for every point you've made
I mean that would be a lot of work, are you really contesting all of this? I don’t have it all on hand but can provide some materials if you’re interested in specific points.
Edit: I’m guessing you might most object to the part about Israeli forces killing Israeli civilians. You can read more about that here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officers-invoked-defunct-hannibal-protocol-during-oct-7-fighting-report/
They don’t specifically mention any babies, but my point is the IDF’s actions, dishonesty, and obstruction make it difficult or impossible to know which forces were responsible for which victims.
Yes. It’s important to stick to the known facts.
Which is hard because Israel refuses to allow any independent investigation.
Oh, they both are. It's quite dire.