this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2025
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[–] De_Narm@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

huSo, I just finished Metaphor today. My opinion remaind mostly the same as I already stated last month, I think:

Mild spoilerIt's a great Persona game with some big flaws not found in the previous ones:

  • MP regeneration is inherently un-fun. Either waste days, grind overworld mobs or have un-fun encounters where you stun the enemy, steal/regenerate MP each turn and then flee before the enemy can do anything - then stun again.
  • Due to MP regen, I believe, they made no effort to thightly design dungeons around MP. In P5R, playing on hard, I always found one of the three MP skull thingies, got booted out of the dungeon or reached the end right when I used up all my MP. In Metaphor, I don't think dungeons like the Skybound Avatar or Dragongod Temple are possible without wasting massive amounts of days or abusing MP regen.
  • The class system meant that I only ever used the first three party members. I invested so much into them by the time I got the last charater, using him would nerf my entire party. They basically only existed to generate Hero Leafs. The later members have good classes, but I could always just equip them to the first three.
  • Sometimes the game is so slow. Each day, you shower, search the pantry and maybe take a shit. When maxing a character or getting a new one, you unlock a lot of classes at once - all with an unskipable animation and some dialog. Same with Masks and Summons - crafting them is such a hassle, I never used either of the classes.
  • Lots of skills are overpowered. Nothing in the game can win against spamming Frozen Fortress Tactic or whatever the skill is called - the ice one that adds a ice weakness to enemies. Even Elegy of the Soul went down long before it casted the one-shot move on hard.

Of course, a lot of things are better too:

  • Overworld encounters are great
  • Getting a rank up each time you speak with a social link feels so much better
  • Actually travelling the world is fun, although the only time you even think about the route is in Brilehaven. Kind of a missed chance.
  • The rewind feature came in handy, even though I mostly abused it for stealing in the later game. Press Turn is always so snowball-y that the option is appreciated nonetheless.
  • I liked doing everything in a single playthrough. These games are so long, I won't replay them for missing social links and such. I won't for the secret boss either.
  • Generating A EXP items with maxed classes is awesome. Usually, I tend to dislike class systems because I feel forced to switch them up and play with un-fun ones just to not waste class exp and get completion bonuses - Xenoblade 3 is one of the biggest offenders. Metaphor completely solved this. However, having to click through that many Hero Leafs is tedious as all hell. Towards the end, you get 3-10 of these with a lot of encounters.

Overall, I'm curious what the Golden Royal Reloaded version does, but I don't think I'll touch it. Everything that makes these games special is just such a drag on a repeated playthrough.

Next up is either Mario RPG, Octopath 2, Xenoblade X or Baten Kaitos. I'll decide on that tomorrow, I think.

[–] tamlyn@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I haven't said something last month i guess. Our thoughts about it are not that different.

answer to spoiler

MP regeneration is inherently un-fun.

  • yes completly true. But i think that a bit of a problem of a lot atlus games. They limi mp recovery items so much that you always have to manage arround that.

The class system meant that I only ever used the first three party members[...]

  • I get you critic, but i have made it different. I just used the chars i like. And the new classes which, summoner or dancer, were kind of interresting. I just used the chars with their class. But sure at some point it was very hard to catch up. Especially for the last char that joined the group.

Sometimes the game is so slow.

  • i guess that's true. While Persona has daily activity as part of the core gameplay besides dungeons and fighting. It rather a side activity here. I go with you with that, could been more different that what atlus is use to do.

I have not much to say to your positive points. I agree with all of them.

One negative point from me would be. I really don't like the monster designs. It's unique, sure, but sometimes i like to see a few monster that doesn't look just bad for me.

[–] De_Narm@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Funnily enough, while our takeaways about MP are similar, we come from different ends of the spectrum.

I think limiting MP as much as possible is integral to a great dungeon, because now every encounter is something to think about. How much MP do you spend? Is the EXP worth the investment? How much damage should you take - how much healing do you still have? And some more. The answer to the question "How can I survive this encounter with the minimal amount of resources?" will shift with your gear, level and resources. Dungeons are all about resource management.

If they are not, they become boring. Every encounter will be the same, and you just use the same moves, which are usually your strongest ones. The answer to "How can I defeat this encounter as fast as possible?" will be the same each time. Especially with Press Turn as implemented in Persona games. You start every fight with advantage and kill everything in the first turn, nothing short of a boss would ever hit you if you're not forced to use weaker moves or even rely on auto-attacks for some things to preserve MP. Also, without a limiting resource, endless grinding within a dungeon becomes an option, and I don't think it should be.

Sadly, outside some Persona games and Etrian Odyssey, a proper dungeon seems to be a lost art. Older Pokémon games kind of went for that sometimes, but with healing around every corner and before every major fight, there isn't much left there either.