this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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Sure, democratic socialism is center left, I'm talking about actual socialism, which gets promoted here quite a bit. Reddit was mostly dem socs and welfare state proponents, Lemmy takes it a bit further.
Yes, but that is no reason to disparage socialism itself. In authoritarian socialism, it is the authoritarian part that sucks.
Democratic socialism isn't socialism though, it's capitalism with lots of government services.
The authoritarian part is pretty much baked in to "real" socialism since you need something to control the means of production until society is ready, and that hasn't yet happened. Yes, there are other theorized structures, but they're unproven.
Tankies (i.e. many of those on .ml) are into the authoritarian part, whereas people here are more into democratic socialism, which is another thing entirely.
Yes, indeed, socialism is an intellectual offshoot of capitalism/liberalism/enlightenment (not neoliberalism, of course) that emerged as a reaction to the industrial revolution (and the French revolution, or you could go as far back as the English civil war, with the levellers) as a reaction to the wealth inequality it creates and it predates Marxism, but communism coopted the term and made it seem exclusively authoritarian (because that was supposedly the only way to beat capital).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Etymology
The history of terms isn't particularly relevant, though it is interesting. For example, "libertarianism" largely came from socialism, and "liberalism" largely meant "small government," whereas today libertarianism is pretty close to what liberalism used to mean, and "liberals" are in favor of large government.
Here's what I mean by each term:
I think socialism as defined above is unworkable because bureaucrats will abuse their power, communism is unworkable because people are selfish, and Democratic socialism is tricky because a large state tends to restrict the freedoms of its people. That's why I align with libertarianism, but am on the left end where I believe there should be wealth redistribution through something like UBI (I prefer Negative Income Tax), so you get most of the benefits of socialism (everyone gets what they need) without most of the bureaucracy (no application process other than tax return).
My position is that people are selfish because they're raised in a society that rewards selfishness. There's always going to be outliers but that's the goal of vanguardism: someone needs to steer the ship while the generational change happens. I don't know if that's the best path forward but it is a path and might work better with more safeguards against a Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot type but that's a hard conversation to have when people aren't willing to to consider any element of communism.
Maybe. I think people are more selfish the larger the group gets. So if you're a small tribe, most people will work for the good of the tribe, but if you're able to easily move between tribes, there's less downside to selfishness.
So my opinion is we should assume selfishness and design a society around it, and capitalism does a pretty good job at that.