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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
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Did they put in requirements like needing the trains to be US built? Or are we just going to end up enriching the Chinese (or elsewhere) with these purchases? Seeing as how these are for CA, they should require 75%+ US-built trains with maybe 25 to 50% of that being built in the state itself.
It isn't just about improving our rail system. It is also about building a home-grown train industry that employs Americans with good paying jobs. These programs have to look at the big picture. This is how you build a home-grown industry that then can supply trains to other parts of the country as well. If you start employing thousands of Americans in this industry, you will then get a voting bloc that looks to further high speed train penetration into other markets as well.
This is kind of how coalminers are right now - it is a shitty fuel, but you have thousands of coalminers who will vote for politicians who further coal adoption. They become a strong political group in their region and with that, it helps keep coal alive even if we need to stop using it. Those politicians want to keep those votes, and those workers want to keep their jobs, even if it destroys our environment. Well think about if a large percent of those coalminers were given jobs building trains. They would be a political force to further the high speed train agenda in our country.
While I agree in principle, the project is already significantly delayed, over budget and under funded. Adding a requirement to bootstrap a high speed train industry in the u.s. would doom the project which is already on Shakey ground.
We don't want this to turn into an unfinished boondoggle that every oil backed think tank can point to and say HSR won't work in the u.s.
You have it backwards.
Adding a US-made requirement would help the program move forward. Every politician loves to claim that he created X number of US jobs. He can then go and visit the factor and mingle with the factory workers and get their vote.
Fuck that. Requiring trains to be built in the US will blow up the already obscene budget even more and lead to poor-quality trains due to a lack of experience in high speed trainset manufacturing.
We saw this in Boston, where the requirement of US-made led to absolutely fucked supply chains, constant delays and cost overruns, and shoddily constructed trains with a multitude of problems (though, admittedly, the entire Boston transit system has these problems anyway so I guess it's just another part of government dysfunction). For what? For a voting bloc of like a thousand temporary workers?
Thing is, the US doesn't really have high speed rail in the pipeline that can share technical expertise. The proposed Texas line is planning to use Shinkansen trains, Brightline already has a supplier, and so does Amtrak. Where are you going to get economies of scale to come into play?
It's also a fucking California state project, and California is the safest blue state that ever blued.
No other type of job creates more secondary jobs like manufacturing. Manufacturing is what created the American middle class with good paying jobs and gave millions upward mobility. Both are things that have been in jeopardy in this country for decades now. The whole goddamn point of growing a domestic high speed rail system is that would incentive future growth in fail travel, create good paying jobs and keep us from being endlessly dependent on foreign know-how.
I agree. If we don't have the capability right now, then let's create it. I can wait to see the project completed if the end result is long-term domestic prosperity in the working classes.
This is the type of thinking we've been neglecting in America, and look at the current state things... We need long-term thinking to replace short-term solutions.
Except that everyone wants instant gratification. Short term fixes that don't solve long term problems. This is fast-food solutions... like empty calories that don't fill you up, you're left wanting seconds after you finish.
In an ideal world, yes, we should build our own trains, but personally I think that's putting the cart before the horse. Let's get at least one portion of the track laid and functional before we start imposing more requirements. We can't support an American train building industry without tracks to put those trains. Any investment in infrastructure increases the likelihood that others build on that infrastructure.