471
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
471 points (94.9% liked)
THE POLICE PROBLEM
2522 readers
25 users here now
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
♦ ♦ ♦
Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
♦ ♦ ♦
RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
♦ ♦ ♦
ALLIES
• r/ACAB
♦ ♦ ♦
INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
♦ ♦ ♦
ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The article said a nurse witnessed the mother smoking pot in the hospital room, I would err on the side of assuming that was the reason the baby was tested. The article says there is a history of racism at CPS in NY towards black people which yeah, that's an issue. But I'm unwilling to assume that about hospital workers given that the inherent basis of medical work is to treat everyone as best you can regardless of personal feelings.
Agreed — I can't even muster any doubt that that's why.
Seems a fairly obvious conclusion that she smoked pot in her hospital room, which led someone to order a marijuana test on both mother and child. That test led to the child being taken away.
A quick Googling suggests that the penalty for smoking indoors in New York is a fine of up to $2,000. Seems harsh, but we don't want people smoking indoors, so levy the fine.
It doesn't say that the penalty is losing your child.
Yeah but you're thinking of it as an action being punished. She was not reported to the police for doing something illegal, even though they technically could have. The hospital was not trying to punish her, they were trying to make sure the child was safe. CPS didn't take the child away because the mother smokes pot (see caveat at the end), they took the child away because the mother smoked while pregnant. Not to punish her, to protect the baby.
Caveat: a major point of the article is that CPS had been continuing to use smoking pot as a factor of determining unsafe conditions, which they should not have been doing once pot was made legal. Just like smoking cigarettes is not illegal and shouldn't be a factor in and of itself. However, smoking cigarettes or pot AROUND children is still a negative factor.
I don't see any of what happened happening if she hadn't smoked marijuana in her hospital room, so I can't envision how what happened isn't punishment for that act.
You're saying they took the child away because the mother smoked while pregnant. I'd like to know how common that is. Are newborns taken away if staff is aware any mother smokes pot while pregnant?
Did health care workers remain mandated to report marijuana use after is became legal?
Obviously there could be mountains of context we don't have which could push this in either direction. I do know subjecting children to second hand smoke is absolutely a factor which can result in CPS getting involved.
Tovthecbwsr of my knowledge hospital workers have never been mandated to report drug usage to the police, I know for a fact it's explicitly illegal for medical staff to report drug use to the police, with one major exception: if there is evidence of harm to the user.
As for reporting drug use to CPS: probably depending on the drug. Again, pot use is legal, but if you get high around your children to the point where you are diminished in your ability to care for that child it becomes an issue.
You must be a teacher — you're good at this. Your third paragraph is an eye-opener, and makes all this make somewhat more sense to me. Someone who's toking in a hospital bed might be someone who tends to toke to excess.
Even second-hand smoke — my instant response is to say that's nuts, because I'm old and grew up with kids who must've had black lung by junior high school, just from their parents' second hand smoke. But it's a different era, and there's no doubt that it's harmful to kids.
Heh, not a teacher, I've just been in a career for a long time that primarily requires explaining data to people. I spent enough years as a data analyst to know how bad policing in the US is, the numbers are pretty damn clear. It definitely sounds like NY CPS has its issues but I've seen a lot of data around what other state CPS organizations do and they get a lot of crap to do an insanely difficult job.