Anon tells you about The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker : greentext

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.ml 36 points 9 months ago

Vader wasn't a figurehead. He was more or less the third most powerful person in the galaxy, right behind Grand Moff Tarkin, up until he died. He basically operated as the head of the Imperial military in their war with the Rebel Alliance. But he never gave rousing speeches or acted as a political figure. He was just the guy who told you what to do and if you fucked up, he would choke you to death with his creepy magic powers. Also, Palpatine was literally the Emperor of the galaxy. People knew who he was: he was the last Chancellor of the Old Republic who'd been granted greater and greater emergency powers during the Clone Wars, up until the point he could effectively stage a coup and seize total power for himself. Nobody knew who Vader was, because, publicly, all the Jedi had been killed, Anakin included.

[-] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 20 points 9 months ago

Wow I never really thought about how Vadar is basically unknown outside of the inner circles of the empire.

Now I am kind of wishing for a suspense horror movie of some grunts who are being hunted by Vadar, only they don't really know who or what he is. He's just a myth or a dark scary rumor. Yet they know something is hunting them.

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago

They kind of do this at the beginning of one season of Star Wars: Rebels. The protagonist brings down a TIE fighter on top of Vader and he basically just shrugs it off. They were like...."Uh, who the fuck is this guy?!"

[+] Madison420@lemmy.world -6 points 9 months ago

He absolutely was, no one even knew nutsack face was the actual power behind the empire. And no the retconn doesn't make any goddamn sense so yes I ignore it.

No he clearly wasn't, obi wan probably still could have taken him because Vader would lose himself in anger again as always. Not to mention his untrained son bested or at the very least held his own against him so maybe 5th or 7th most powerful.

He never needed to it was says pretty specifically in universe that Vader was thought to be the empire. Sure he never played geopolitics, instead he instilled fear and let his administration do administrative shit that doesn't mean he isn't the defacto leader.

No, during empire literally no one knew nutsack face was the chancellor. It's not mentioned and everyone would 100% know what the fucked up looking king of the galaxy looks like.

He staged a coup, then faded into the shadow and very obviously immediately moved into the disinformation and replacement work. They literally show it on the movies.

Everyone knew Vader, no one knew Anakin and no one would in the same way I don't know what rey mysterio looks like but I'm still certain I know who he is and I'm 100% not willing to get thrown by my neck but dude a third my size.

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.ml 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

All of this is your own personal headcanon. Which is fine, but let's not pretend like it's factually correct. And while I know wookieepedia is far from a perfect source, it at least tries to get as close to the canonical truth of the often contradictory backstories of characters in Star Wars media. On the page for Anakin Skywalker, one section starts

Believing that he lost all that he cared about by his own hand, Darth Vader embraced his role as the Emperor's chief enforcer. Few knew who he was, and even fewer suspected that he had once been Anakin Skywalker. Some rumors circulated that Vader was a counterpart to the late Separatist warlord General Grievous, whom Palpatine had held in reserve, while others speculated that he was a technologically modified warrior trained in the now-forbidden arts of the Force. His appearance at the Imperial court and the favor he carried from the Emperor earned him the distrust of Imperial officers. They resented him for appearing out of nowhere and having authority over them because of his link to his Master. They also resented his heavy-handed treatment of them, such as when he used the Force in the presence of his Master to choke Colonel Barokki. In secret, Barokki and another Imperial officer plotted to assassinate Vader, whose position in the new Empire they did not understand.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world -4 points 9 months ago

That's from the books which aren't Cannon anymore.

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

Well, the books were never really "canonical" in the same sense as the films. But the films themselves, if that's what you're going on, never make any reference to Vader's presence in the empire in a larger context. We just see that he is, generally speaking, the person in charge, aside from Tarkin in A New Hope, and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. So, if we are going purely off of that, then we have no way of knowing how various parties in the galaxy perceived Vader or understood his role in the grand scheme of things. Which is probably fine, because it's fundamentally unimportant to the story being told. But it still makes more sense for him to just be an agent of the Emperor who operates with virtually unlimited authority and who is outside of any kind of formal military command structure.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world -3 points 9 months ago

If we're adding the books then nutsack face was never in control or in fact that strong basically everyone around him paying lip service were stronger and more in control, they essentially yes manned a senile old man who thought himself more grand then he actually was.

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

This is all just blatantly, completely untrue. I'm gonna go ahead and do the thing I initially told myself I wasn't, but you're so off base I literally have to: do you have any source, at all, that backs up any of what you're saying? Any specific piece of Star Wars media one could look at to verify that what you are describing is at least even close to accurate? Because I've literally read dozens of Star Wars novels and graphic novels, have played most Star Wars video games, and seen most of the Star Wars television series ever created, and at no point have I ever encountered anything that supports what you're describing.

[-] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Another galaxy, another time.

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that... it was the Republic.

Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, then appear those evil ones who have greed to match.

So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.

Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.

But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.

From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples...

Introduction to the original Star Wars novelization from 1976. Of course, basically every piece of media since The Empire Strikes Back ignores the whole "isolated Emperor" bit.

[-] Klear@lemmy.world 29 points 9 months ago

So he got fucked in that regard too.

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago

In the Thrawn trilogy you get to read Thrawn's opinion of Vader. It wasn't flattering.

[-] teejay@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

I didn't read the books, care to summarize or paste it here?

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 23 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In Heir to the Empire Thrawn makes it clear that he found Vader to be a weak, shortsighted, cruel, unthinking, and narcissistic. Just an attack dog that was too preoccupied with himself to think anything through. Thrawn also wasn't too happy with the emperor. Apparently Palpatine es very racist and only raised humans to the top ranks, which Thrawn found shortsighted and illogical. Thrawn was an exception to the emperor's bias because of how skill and effectiveness.

It's been a long time so it would take me too long to find the passages and paste it here.

EDIT: Heir to the Empire was the introduction of Thrawn so even though it got retconned into "Legends", I have decided to keep his attitude and mindset regarding Vader, Palpatine and the Sith as head cannon.

[-] franklin@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

I was interested too so I tried to search it up The only relevant entry I found was on the Star wars rebels wiki, which doesn't seem to support the claim but with how often this stuff gets retconed this could easily be out of date.

Thrawn and Vader first met during the Clone Wars on a Mission to Batuu, where they pursued the Separatists for their own reasons. Thrawn fought alongside Jedi General Anakin Skywalker, which left Skywalker impressed with Thrawn and Thrawn impressed with Skywalker. They later met again, but this time as Darth Vader. Due to Thrawn's meeting with Skywalker in the Clone Wars, Thrawn was able to figure out that Skywalker and Vader are the same person after witnessing similarities that they share. Thrawn was one of if not the only Imperial who wasn't afraid of Vader and was one of the few officers who actually respected Vader for his commitment and loyalty to the Empire. Vader in turn held great respect for the Grand Admiral's intelligence and strategic influence. Although, Vader's respect was somewhat tarnish for the Grand Admiral after his failure to capture the rebels on Atollon, Vader still respected and trusted the Grand Admiral during their second mission to Batuu to investigate a disturbance in the Force. Although Vader was fed up with Thrawn consistent trolling efforts to deduce that Darth Vader was in fact the Jedi General Anakin Skywalker he fought alongside so many years ago. When Thrawn started making the TIE Defender project, Vader was one of the officers who supported Thrawn's project and told Thrawn to make some modifications on it, which lead to the TIE Defender Elite.

[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The Thrawn Trilogy is part of what is now called "Legends", so it seems that it indeed got retconned. The original Thrawn trilogy predates Episodes 1-3, so it was retconned later.

[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago

I mean Vader was glorified muscle

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Yeah the tradition is apprentice kills master then moves to the shadows and finds an apprentice. By the time nutsack face dies he's already hurt and basically dying although with the new movie Vader failed in literally every respect. He is without question a failed sith apprentice and failed Jedi apprentice.

[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago

You should read Kieron Gillen’s Vader. Not because you’re wrong but I think you’ll enjoy seeing Vader working on his own machinations.

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