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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Asklemmy
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It all depends on your definition of communism and state etc., but the Zapatistas seem to be quite successful with a grassroots approach.
Well, it started with a violent uprising in which 300 people where killed and the Wiki article you linked has a section called "government" which reads as follows:
That's direct democracy on a community level and representative democracy on a higher level. Pretty similar to what is practiced in many democratic countries.
And if they have a police agency and an army it's hard to call them anarchist.
And they themselves don't do that either. Only outside anarchists project themselves onto them and say they are anarchists.
As I said, it depends on a lot of definitions of rather complex concepts.
The point I was trying to make, was that you don't have to end up with a state, especially not a soviet style state, after a revolution. And in my opinion a violent uprising or an having an organized militant group does not mean you have a state. If I understand it correctly, the Zapatistas don't have a principle of using violence to force others into their system - which is something central to states.
It's kinda weird though that some people call for violent revolutions over what amounts to semantics.
Sadly, history has taught us, that there are only very few revolutions that end up with a more liberal political system. The Zaparistas are the first instance where I heard of something like that, and I am not nearly informed enough on the specifics of their system and how it works out in real-life to comment on them.
All other revolutions that I know about usually ended with a Robespierre, a Lenin/Stalin, a Hitler, a Mao Zedong or any of the hundreds of military dictatorships that came into power over the last century.
Not many people are able to first amass enough power to be stronger than the regular government and then idealistic enough to let go of all that power again.
I agree that there are a lot of revolutions ending up way more totalitarian than planned.
I'm not sure there are hundreds of them that had communism or a stateless society as a goal though. Many military dictatorships had a military dictatorship as a goal after all. But of course there were also many who had that goal, and failed on a huge scale.
There were more revolutions than just the Zapatistas that seemed to be promising though, like the Spanish Revolution and the the Makhnovshchina.
You are right, of course, that most revolutions don't have communism as their goal.
But all successful ones lead to totalitarian states.
I find it difficult to judge the Zapatistas, same as the Spanish Revolution and the Makhovshchina, since they all nevever matured (or in the chase of the Zapatistas haven't matured yet).
Generally speaking, during a revolution, the revolutionists (is that a word?) promise the people everything, because they need to gather support. Once they have driven out the old power/government and actually control the area, they usually tend to shift. This pattern occurs not only for communist revolutions, but for all types of revolution.
Generally speaking "Support me becoming a totalitarian dictator" isn't really a good rallying call.
I'm not saying it can't happen, only that it consistently hasn't happened so far.