For sure!

I used the sound effects of metal gear for years on my phone :D (https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLzY7EDSZRz-dy23XaO11b2-zZGfTwoaY)

I should tell my family that they must play the metal gear solid game over sound at my funeral lol

Do you also have many special memories with those games?

Nobody said that you have to care about animals in the same way as you care for humans. Nobody said that they're on the same level. You just literally said that you don't care about their suffering, which sounds insane to anyone.

You talk about "humane killing of animals without any necessity". Does "humane killing" sound humane to you? Humanely treated? Why do 99% of people claim they prefer "humanely treated" animals, when appr. 99% of all animal products come from factory farming? That's the opposite of humane. Nothing in the industry is humane. They all try to make money. I don't have to explain to you how you do that, I assume

It's not a common moral framework. But we don't have to discuss this any further. I see that you're not really open for that discussion.

That sounds like you have that "if it doesn't affect me, why would I care" mind, which would be crazy. But I might have got that wrong what you just said.

To not care about cruelty is not "normal". To not have empathy for animals is far from normal. If I go into the city and show people videos of animal abuse, they'd be shocked. They have empathy.

So I wonder, why do you say that you don't care about cruelty? Is that just in regard to animals? Or do you also not care about other people suffering?

And for the second part: I disagree. People tend to care about the environment even though they consume animal products. It's just that they don't care enough so that they'll change their way of living. They prefer not to go out of their comfort zone. They want to consume. And they put personal wealth over the wellbeing of nature and other individuals if you ask me

What an awesome game. Metal gear 1 and 2 will always have a special place in my heart

And many different human ethical systems exist. If you believe that eating animals is always unethical, that is your ethic. If that means you believe I am unethical, then that viewpoint is valid within your system of ethics.

Sorry, but that is just a very poor try of avoiding the argument. What you say here is basically true, because if I move to other countries, I can do bad things that are under their umbrella of "local ethics". Like moving somewhere east where women are still seen as property and where I can abuse them.

Does that mean that we cannot challange "local ethics"? No. You can challange any ethical standpoint. And you should.

But you avoid the core argument by stating empty phrases like the one above :/

the only way to change a person’s ethics is to appeal to them by showing the commonalities between belief systems, then showing them the benefits of certain variations that you believe.

In this case I can simply use logic. Logic shows that there is no justification for the suffering and deaths of all these innocent animals as long as there is no necessity for that. Don't believe me? Try to justificate it right now :)

Neither you nor I like animal suffering. The difference is, I’ve seen plenty of animals lead relaxed, happy lives, that end painlessly before the animal is turned into meat. I understand that the notion repulses you.

I grew up with many animals that all had to die. I saw how they died, with pain and without pain. But the difference is that, even though I was tought that this "is OK", I challanged this belief system, which is quite easy. And the main difference between me and other people is that I accept if I'm wrong, I do admit that and, after this first step, I change things.

I saw that it's wrong to just consume and not give a fuck about the environment. That's why I'm changing a lot even though it's highly uncomfortable at times.

I saw that it's wrong to judge people. So I stopped that

I saw that it's wrong to pay for animals to suffer and die, when there is no necessity to do so. That's why I started a vegan lifestyle

You kind of explained your viewpoint, but you didn't say anything constructive in regard to the arguments. So it's nice that you try to explain your viewpoint, that's something I really appriciate, but you should atleast try to state some arguments to the arguments that have been told. Right?

What exactly do I reject?

Thank you, I'll find my way :)

I think the main difference between you and the people from your prehistoric roots is that you have many other choices. You don't have to continue to hunt down many animals, because you can choose to buy certain foods and you also have the choice to buy plant based foods.

Whenever you have the choice to buy plant based foods, there is no chance to argue that purchasing animal products in that case is somehow ethical.

The only way to defend hunting for your own survival is when you don't live in a place where you have many foods available. Like, let's say you are on an island where there is no shopping centre or anything. You obviously need to hunt to survive. But if you live somewhere where many plant based foods are available, saying that killing animals is justified in order to get food makes no sense at all. And is certainly not ethical (Deciding to kill an individual being without any necessity can never be ethical)

I think there could be a game changer. If I remember right, they already found a way to reproduce cheese and other dairy products in the lab, which can't be distinguished from the original. The only problem is that it's such an act to start it in Europe under the European Parlament. I think it was "precision fermantation"

For example, companies like Perfect Day are pioneering this technology, using fermentation to produce milk proteins without cows. By feeding sugars to microflora, these organisms create the same proteins found in cow's milk, which can then be used to make products like ice cream, cheese, and yogurt. This process reduces greenhouse gas emissions by up to 97% compared to traditional dairy farming, offering both environmental and ethical benefits​(InsideHook)​(ScienceDaily). https://www.insidehook.com/food/precision-fermentation-milk-dairy https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240801121845.htm

May I ask this.... Would you decide to gradually change your lifestyle to a less cruel one when the vegan arguments seem to be correct or would you rather wait for a law against eating meat?

Al'right, thank you. I have it on my wishlist, it's just that I don't trust games anymore, which is why I wait for better deals. But the positive reviews speak for themselves in this case

Would you recommend it to the current price (24,50€) or would you recommend to wait for better deal?