Lumiluz

I definitely do think that I'm a bit out of date on housing with Germany, especially homelessness.

But I just can't comprehend how you think that the structural and generation spanning poverty of Germany is worse than the USA. The healthcare and higher education issue in USA alone assures stronger generational poverty than Germany, because if you're already poor then any health issues will guarantee you stay poor, unlike Germany, and if you are young and poor then you're limited in higher education, also causing you to stay poorer, unlike Germany.

I'd like to understand where you are coming from, but you keep saying that inequity is worse in Germany, but do not provide data or logical reasoning on how. Like, what is unique in Germany that would cause more overall poverty, according to you, than the USA?

Again, I know Germany is definitely not doing well the last couple of years, especially compared to other EU countries. But I do find it really, really hard to believe it's doing worse, if only because the social care system is stronger there than in the USA. Is it solely housing? Is it immigration that's affecting the statistics?

I think there's some misunderstanding.

I'm not saying there isn't a divide in Germany - there is - I'm saying there isn't as wide a gap between the USA and Germany.

I think part of the issue with the comparison overall is the size of the two countries, as well as again that there's things that the Gini Coefficient doesn't factor well. USA has significant chunks of places where people own a home for example, but they are houses that would be (rightfully) condemned in Germany because they are so dilapidated and unsafe / unhygienic to live in. There are places that literally have mud floors in the state of Maine, or basements filled to the brim with toxic mold from previous floods in Mississippi. In these cases, such ownership properties become a generational burden instead, because there's essentially no market value for them but they also require significant capital in order to repair (assuming they can be repaired).

The other thing is that while in Germany (and other EU countries) many people rent rather than own, there's some key important differences that matter a lot here:

1. rent is more affordable. It can still be expensive, but the overall rent index in Germany is lower than the USA, and that's without accounting the higher average pay Germans get per work hour.
2. the law to uphold the condition of rental properties is higher overall in Germany, and Germans have more renter's rights than Americans.
3. you can actually buy your own apartment unit (flat) in Germany. You cannot do so in any states that I'm aware of in USA.

This is why you see massive towns of homeless people in the USA but not Germany, in part - at least people can find a place to live. And I do mean literal towns of homeless people.

Yes, you can find cheap housing in the USA too with homes that are in good condition - but they're usually in the middle of nowhere, with essentially zero local job or business opportunities. And you have to remember that in order to travel anywhere in the USA, you will need a car.

As for the rich hiding their wealth, they do that everywhere in the world. But your tax laws are at least still stricter than the USA ones (even more so now).

Lastly, we actually agree that there's a bigger wealth gap in the USA - that's what the "terms of absolute poverty at the fringes and extreme (display) of wealth" indicate - a bigger gap in wealth.

What you then go on to argue about (structural inequality and near inescapable dependency of the poor in relationships that can be described as wage-slavery Germany) is actually called wealth inequity.

But on this USA has a bigger difference again as well, because things like unaffordable healthcare, education, and transportation all affect ones ability to move in the financial ladder as well.

Imagine the scenario you're describing in that sentence, but now add that getting sick will cost you a lot, you can't afford university, you MUST buy a vehicle for work, and there's an increased likelihood of natural disasters ruining your things. That's the USA.

I don't know if others have mentioned this already, but the Gini coefficient has flaws, especially when comparing very different economic models (which the USA and Germany have). It would work better for comparing Kentucky to California for example, or Hesse to Bavaria. Not only that, but the Gini coefficient is more sensitive to changes in the middle of the income distribution than at the extremes. This means that significant changes in the income of the middle class may not significantly affect the Gini coefficient, while changes among the very rich or very poor might. It also focuses solely on relative income distribution and does not account for the absolute levels of income. Two countries could have the same Gini coefficient but vastly different average incomes, leading to different living standards.

The accuracy of the Gini coefficient also depends on the quality and comprehensiveness of the data used. In many countries, like the USA especially with its tax loopholes, income data may be incomplete or unreliable (and it'll only get more unreliable with Musk in charge). And we already covered how it doesn't cover issues like access to healthcare, education, etc that all cause and help perpetuate a wealth gap.

Poverty risk is part of the direct wealth inequality. If you're much more likely to fall into poverty, you're going to have higher levels of poverty, and thus a wider gap

Hi, yeah, been to both to keep it short.

I'm Germany, if you break your leg, you'll be mostly fine financially.

In USA, you could be in debt for years.

The gap isn't that close.

Heck, let's just look at ambulance cost.

In non-life-threatening situations, Germans pay 10% of transport costs, from €5 to €10.

In the USA, in one of the cheaper states, you're looking at least at 2,000$ without insurance. Average is 5-10,000$.

With insurance isn't much better, with a good rate being 500$ still just for the ride.

And well, you've seen the meme on eggs I'm the USA. Strangely enough, even something like McDonald's meals can more expensive sometimes in the USA then Germany.

I suppose your internet and cell data prices are similar at least.

Housing (in cities) though, is cheaper in Germany.

I haven't even gotten into education, because I don't know much about it, but I don't think Germans are paying hundreds of Euros for a book, digital or physical.

Again, The gap isn't that close.

Yep, it's pretty difficult.

If you have spare money tho, and like the cold, anyone is free to move to Svalbard, which Norway owns. They have internet. It's easier to get housing tho if you start a business which, to be fair, there's technically very little competition there.

Otherwise honestly at this point there's some decent South America countries you can go to, and aren't run by neo Nazis like the states are now.

If you know Spanish. If you know French, you can probably get to France more easily through South American France (/j)

More like hopefully I'm wrong. I don't think I am, but I hope to be.

You sure it wasn't a chlorhexidine mouthwash?

Possibly true, but also a lot of the reports for issues caused by cocaine use lump cocaine with all of its derivatives, including things like crack cocaine. Rarely is pure cocaine affordably sold in the black market.

It would be as fair as combining statistics for oxycodone and tramadol.

I don't think cocaine is as dangerous as it's usually thought of from what I've read. Still dangerous enough to be age restricted and regulated for sure, but also in the right doses about as harmful as cigarettes (except cigarettes also harm those nearby)

And the risk of alcohol and cars dramatically increases your risk of death and yet...

Just wanted to point out, of the three you mentioned, cocaine is still used in medicine, especially in dentistry. You may in fact even have used an analog yourself that's pretty common: Lidocaine

I burnt out long ago when I saw Democrats being full rightwing and most Americans being "enlightened centrists" doing shit. For me the tipping point was the Supreme Court stealing the election from Al Gore.

But I think what was most frustrating of all was the years of being called am extremist by most when pointing out the Democrats weren't stopping fascism and later that Trump would be the end of democracy during his first term. I remember so many fucking people saying that taking out Trump by any means possible was "extreme", only to see some of those same people now wish for the exact same damn thing when it's much more difficult to do so.

I'm glad I left that country years ago. Ultimately the reason there's a lack of unions, justice, and more there is because it's a country full of broken people, ruled by broken people.

Many immigrants thought it was great simply because they weren't being actively hunted to be killed or no longer dealt with unaffordable food (like my parents). They came from even worse countries at the time and when the USA wasn't that bad, so they keep quiet and just try to live on, and just accept injustice because it's all they've ever known. And the natively born there either are deluged with propaganda so they never pull the wool out of their eyes and never taught to think critically or are systematically broken down into poverty, injustice, and violence so they lose hope.

I don't think Americans will do what's right, even when only one path is now left open. But maybe I'm wrong, and like the old quote they'll do the right thing at the last moment when they realize they have no more choices.

Either way, it doesn't directly affect me anymore. I tried fighting back, but a small group can't fix a broken people. Maybe completely shattering them is what's needed instead.

In the meantime, I'll keep helping those seeking help where I can, especially the 🟦🌸⬜🌸🟦 seeking to leave to safety.