[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

and the Condorcet method can completely fail to select a winner.

That one's not a flaw. All elections can suffer from ties. Pure Condorcet just makes it obvious when there's a tie (and this is very rare). There are a bunch of Condorcet completion methods for resolving the tie.

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ranked Choice Voting doesn't make third parties viable, either. It uses the same counting method as our current system (tally up people's first-choice preferences) and therefore suffers from all the same problems, like vote-splitting, spoiler effect, and center-squeeze effect. You can't fix the problems of FPTP by adding more rounds of FPTP. You need to allow voters to express opinions about all of the candidates and then actually count all of those opinions.

If you want third parties to be viable, you want real reforms like STAR Voting, Condorcet RCV, or Approval Voting.

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Better ranked system (transferable vote instead of points)

https://civs1.civs.us/civs_create.html ? or https://star.vote for scored ballots

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You would probably prefer STAR Voting, or a Condorcet variant of RCV, like Ranked Robin or Total Vote Runoff.

They have the more expressive ballots of Hare RCV without carrying over the flaws of FPTP.

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You just advertised a system that doesn’t count dissenting votes, therefore making it impossible to find the real acceptance of some choice.

Likewise, RCV doesn't count all of the voter's rankings, making it impossible to find the true preferred candidate from the published election results.

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Ranked choice would absolutely still help. The two party state is utterly awful.

Depends which form of ranked choice. The naïvely-designed ones like Supplementary Vote, Contingent Vote, Instant-Runoff Voting, Top Four, Final Five, etc. don't fix the two-party system at all, since they only count first-choice rankings in each round, just like our current system. Unfortunately those are the only ones being advocated in the US. We need Condorcet-compliant systems if we actually want to fix the spoiler effect and end the two-party system. Total Vote Runoff/Baldwin, Ranked Robin, Schulze, etc.

As an aside, ranked voting isn’t what I’d consider ideal for the general election, either. It’s still heavily disproportionate. Proportional voting is far superior for ensuring representation.

Yes!

Any form of single winner ballot (ranked choice or FPTP) is gonna favour the centrist, even though that means 50% of the population don’t get their ideal representation.

Actually, both FPTP and RCV suffer from the "center-squeeze effect", so centrist candidates are at a disadvantage and they favor more polarizing candidates.

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Approval Voting (AKA Freedom Voting)

haha that might be the dumbest rebrand I've ever heard. Hope it succeeds, though!

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

My suggestion here is counting all rankings, not having a winner determined by the sums of first choices, which would introduce some complexity and possible elimination of ballots

Some ranked ballot systems that count all rankings:

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You probably mean https://www.rcv123.org/? But that uses Hare's method, which is pretty flawed and won't always pick the candidate preferred by the voters.

Better to use https://star.vote/ (score ballots) or https://civs1.civs.us/civs_create.html (ranked ballots).

[-] Psephomancy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately the form of RCV used everywhere in the US is Hare's method, which eliminates candidates based only on voters' first-choice rankings, which largely just perpetuates all the same problems as FPTP. There are many other better reforms. One of those should become the norm instead.

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Psephomancy

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