[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Is there any harm in pitching the idea? Obviously not as your only one but as part of a group of solutions for your teachers to okay and sign off on

Not really, though I am certain that that policy would not be allowed. Maybe I'll pitch it as part of a range of possible approaches, although the policy itself is a major privacy violation (along with legal repercussions), especially as the students are children.

I do like the idea of publicly shaming students, though. What do you think about these approaches?

  • Name-and-shame lists in classrooms:
    • Consistent source of shame for the student, though this approach would be more effective for younger students than older students.
  • Public apology:
    • The offending student(s) would apologise in an assembly in front of the students in their grade. Would greatly increase their shame and hold them to account in front of all of their classmates.

Admittedly, it's hard thinking of policies centred around public shaming without being too oriented towards younger students (below 11) or being legally questionable for children (above 18). I'm sure that your idea would be more accepted in a university, for example.

Could even do some sly tricks where most of the options are obvious No but then sneak this option in as the "moderate" position

Haha tempting but I don't know if that will work as a strategy! Though in our meetings with school leadership, I'm sure that individual members will make similar points to the ones that you are making to see how receptive they are to them.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 5 months ago

I would personally do a policy to post their pictures on the walls and publicly shame them for their offence with that. Teaches them its not acceptable and that it's something they should be shunned by everybody for. Could help create a mob mentality against racism too

Quite a few of us in the group did consider this idea, but I highly doubt the school would allow that as the students and parents may see it as a form of harassment. We would like more combative measures against racism, though.

Digressing: don't have much experience with this unfortunately because in my highschool that had Chinese people as the plurality race and less white people than POC, there was actually very little racism, and the one small group of white kids who hated Asians transferred out specifically there were too many Asians so they kinda solved our own problems for us

That does sound like a more welcoming space! In your case, the varying attitudes towards racism between white and non-white people was very apparent to the point that racism wasn't even an issue. I did discuss the idea that white people have to do more to combat racism as they will naturally find it harder to condemn something they don't experience in this comment.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

To clarify, all of the members of the group are students, including me.

Unironically the policy should be that you let and encourage people of color to beat their racist classmates and then have their back when they get in trouble for "violence".

Honestly, I can understand that perspective and I know other schools that are far more diverse in their racial demographics (my school is predominantly white) in which students combat racism with violence. It definitely makes the victims of racism feel more welcome in the school, plus it does a good job at combating a culture of acceptance of racism.

Beating racists is the only thing that ever got them to atop attacking me (yes, attacking, because it doesn't end with mere words). And it was nice when teachers looked the other way instead of bringing the hammer down on me (most brought the hammer down. Fuck those ones).

Ideally, a target of racist abuse attacking their racist classmates in retaliation would be excused to an extent in the same way a target of physical abuse attacking their abuser would be excused to an extent. Understanding why they reacted that way rather than the reaction itself allows for justification of their retaliation. However, there is little chance that school administration would consider permitting violence (even against racists), though I'm sure that we could push for a reduced punishment as the repercussions for the two parties should never be equal.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 5 months ago

Oh, I see. For me, I would evaluate the idea of calling the police to school like this:

  • Further clarifies the weight of racist incidents and the zero-tolerance policy that the school has for it
  • Relies on a tactic of fear, plus the police are a major source of racism

In that perspective, inviting the police does seem like a very bad idea. Though I still like the idea of at least including senior members of staff to talk to the students as they should further clarifiy the severity of racism.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

police were called

I don't think calling the police would be a good idea given their reputation of brutality against people of color and the fact that it would rely on more of a tactic of fear against children.

My 5 years there, saw at least a dozen expelled or fired.

Firing teachers for racism is a good stance for me! We'll probably still push for temporary suspension rather than expulsion unless they are a repeat offender.

Edit: Removed idea of calling the police as I have since changed my opinion.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 5 months ago

I think the main thing that your group needs to do, is train your fellow students to not tolerate this kind of behavior and call it out when they see it.

Yes; our primary aim is to educate people on racism as a means to prevent people from being racist in the first place. We're also aiming to motivate students to report racist incidents as there is a culture of not snitching on other students, even with racism.

Peer pressure is FAR MORE powerful than what a teacher can do by themselves. I think that, ideally, if there was a racist incident that happened, and the teacher AS WELL as a group of students called it out as being unacceptable, that would be far more powerful and effective. Social shaming is a powerful thing and having students call out other students for racist behavior is far more powerful than a teacher or authority figure saying it's bad by themselves.

Our group is composed of students only, and we believe that makes it more appealing and approachable to new members as there are usually no teachers there. We have had new members join the group because they wanted to report a racist incident, but they felt that a teacher wouldn't do enough against it - or too intimidated - and that allowed us to collectively report a few students already!

Find some teachers that you think would be receptive, and ask them to join your group.

We plan to meet with the school leadership every month to discuss any concerns or plans we have. It would be nice for other teachers to come every once in a while, though maybe not in every session.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Sorry again, my understanding of bigotry was that it encompassed all forms of racism, sexism, transphobia, etc., not by what seems to be its actual definition. The post will be edited.

I am aware of the many aspects of racism; the school administration and us did agree on a policy for racism specifically as opposed to bigotry in general to allow for different repercussions and action as racism can be structural, institutional, systemic and ideological.

I challenge you to get more precise about why you think bigotry is different than other forms of conflict, connect it to the structural so that you’re not only dealing with the individual, and proceed from there with a refined analysis and set of proposals.

Good point; we wanted a more educational than “punishing” approach because punishments were ineffective in correcting racism. I have a list of points for them to take into consideration, including assemblies at the start of the year on race education and the finalised racism policy, as well as pathways to reporting racism to students rather than teachers if victims of racism feel more open to reporting racism to them instead (plus the issue with reporting to teachers mentioned in the post).

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Sorry, my understanding of “preventative” was that it implied the correction of the behaviour through education and learning. The post will be edited.

People are who they are

I may be interpreting this wrong, but I disagree with this statement. People aren't born with racism, they learn it.

8
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/3066501

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18). We were discussing instances of racism and came to the conclusion that the school - teachers, especially - were not giving proper or effective repercussions for racist incidents. Racism in the school is quite normalised, especially against Black and Asian students, including:

CW: list of racist incidents

  • Calling black people "monkeys", unnecessarily calling them "fast" and that they "should be at the back of the bus"
  • Playing stereotypical Indian music and linking brown people to "curry" and tech-support scammers
  • The Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees chant and mocking the Chinese language

Most teachers report the incident, triggering an investigation into what happened; the student(s) are usually suspended - possibly being temporarily transferred to another school - the offending student(s) are talked to by senior staff members and attend anti-racism sessions. This approach feels appropriate, although I want to hear your thoughts on it as racism is still a significant issue in the school.

In addition, quite a few teachers instead push to "settle the matter" in-class (say sorry, shake hands) or give lesser punishments that are intended for things like swearing or talking over the teacher. These are not appropriate punishments and shouldn't be tolerated. Bigotry is never equivalent to just rude behaviour or minor arguments (that includes bullying).

The school administration has been made aware of our thoughts and fortunately they are very open to the idea of writing a clearer and more effective policy on racism in the school.

Do teachers need to be trained better on their tolerance of racism? Is the policy not corrective enough? How would you write a racism policy for a school for 11 to 18 year olds?

Thanks again!

1
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/em_poc@hexbear.net

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/3066501

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18). We were discussing instances of racism and came to the conclusion that the school - teachers, especially - were not giving proper or effective repercussions for racist incidents. Racism in the school is quite normalised, especially against Black and Asian students, including:

CW: list of racist incidents

  • Calling black people "monkeys", unnecessarily calling them "fast" and that they "should be at the back of the bus"
  • Playing stereotypical Indian music and linking brown people to "curry" and tech-support scammers
  • The Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees chant and mocking the Chinese language

Most teachers report the incident, triggering an investigation into what happened; the student(s) are usually suspended - possibly being temporarily transferred to another school - the offending student(s) are talked to by senior staff members and attend anti-racism sessions. This approach feels appropriate, although I want to hear your thoughts on it as racism is still a significant issue in the school.

In addition, quite a few teachers instead push to "settle the matter" in-class (say sorry, shake hands) or give lesser punishments that are intended for things like swearing or talking over the teacher. These are not appropriate punishments and shouldn't be tolerated. Bigotry is never equivalent to just rude behaviour or minor arguments (that includes bullying).

The school administration has been made aware of our thoughts and fortunately they are very open to the idea of writing a clearer and more effective policy on racism in the school.

Do teachers need to be trained better on their tolerance of racism? Is the policy not corrective enough? How would you write a racism policy for a school for 11 to 18 year olds?

Thanks again!

30
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18). We were discussing instances of racism and came to the conclusion that the school - teachers, especially - were not giving proper or effective repercussions for racist incidents. Racism in the school is quite normalised, especially against Black and Asian students, including:

CW: list of racist incidents

  • Calling black people "monkeys", unnecessarily calling them "fast" and that they "should be at the back of the bus"
  • Playing stereotypical Indian music and linking brown people to "curry" and tech-support scammers
  • The Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees chant and mocking the Chinese language

Most teachers report the incident, triggering an investigation into what happened; the student(s) are usually suspended - possibly being temporarily transferred to another school - the offending student(s) are talked to by senior staff members and attend anti-racism sessions. This approach feels appropriate, although I want to hear your thoughts on it as racism is still a significant issue in the school.

In addition, quite a few teachers instead push to "settle the matter" in-class (say sorry, shake hands) or give lesser punishments that are intended for things like swearing or talking over the teacher. These are not appropriate punishments and shouldn't be tolerated. Bigotry is never equivalent to just rude behaviour or minor arguments (that includes bullying).

The school administration has been made aware of our thoughts and fortunately they are very open to the idea of writing a clearer and more effective policy on racism in the school.

Do teachers need to be trained better on their tolerance of racism? Is the policy not corrective enough? How would you write a racism policy for a school for 11 to 18 year olds?

Thanks again!

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Okay, the book itself is very interesting and one that I will add to my personal reading list, although I'm not sure how suited it would be for the group's reading list. I'll add it on anyways and see what the rest of the group thinks about it.

Thanks again for the suggestion! I have a general idea of the overlaps of capitalism with fascism but not much idea on what fascism is.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Thanks! From the synopsis I found, it does look like a good starting book.

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

Thanks! Appreciate this

[-] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

Thanks! Just added these books; the prevalence of indigenous people in the education system is criminally little.

10
submitted 10 months ago by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/1882413

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18) and we are creating a reading list for the library. Our library isn't very diverse right now (most books are written by white people about the West) and we need books on race education (privilege, discrimination, etc.) and on the history (precolonial, colonial and postcolonial, could be on neocolonialism too) and culture of underrepresented people.

Please keep in mind that these books should be acceptable by the school and approachable by students who would be unlikely to accept or read very progressive material, so themes that strongly (just strongly) contradict Western narratives should be avoided.

For example, a book on the colonisation of Palestine that exposes the oppressive nature of Zionism is mostly fine, but a book presenting Hamas as a liberation group would not be accepted (and actually illegal in my country).

You can reply with books or other reading lists that we could then review and add. I'll finish this post with some examples of books on the reading list (keep in mind that it was for Black History Month, so all of the examples are on black people):

African Empires by Lyndon, Dan
Black Power: The Politics of Liberation In America by Carmichael, Stokely; Hamilton, Charles V
I Heard What You Said by Boakye, Jeffrey
The Assassination of Lumumba by Witte, Ludo de.
White privilege: the myth of a post-racial society by Bhopal, Kalwant

Thanks in advance!

1
submitted 10 months ago by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/em_poc@hexbear.net

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/1882413

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18) and we are creating a reading list for the library. Our library isn't very diverse right now (most books are written by white people about the West) and we need books on race education (privilege, discrimination, etc.) and on the history (precolonial, colonial and postcolonial, could be on neocolonialism too) and culture of underrepresented people.

Please keep in mind that these books should be acceptable by the school and approachable by students who would be unlikely to accept or read very progressive material, so themes that strongly (just strongly) contradict Western narratives should be avoided.

For example, a book on the colonisation of Palestine that exposes the oppressive nature of Zionism is mostly fine, but a book presenting Hamas as a liberation group would not be accepted (and actually illegal in my country).

You can reply with books or other reading lists that we could then review and add. I'll finish this post with some examples of books on the reading list (keep in mind that it was for Black History Month, so all of the examples are on black people):

African Empires by Lyndon, Dan
Black Power: The Politics of Liberation In America by Carmichael, Stokely; Hamilton, Charles V
I Heard What You Said by Boakye, Jeffrey
The Assassination of Lumumba by Witte, Ludo de.
White privilege: the myth of a post-racial society by Bhopal, Kalwant

Thanks in advance!

16
submitted 10 months ago by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18) and we are creating a reading list for the library. Our library isn't very diverse right now (most books are written by white people about the West) and we need books on race education (privilege, discrimination, etc.) and on the history (precolonial, colonial and postcolonial, could be on neocolonialism too) and culture of underrepresented people.

Please keep in mind that these books should be acceptable by the school and approachable by students who would be unlikely to accept or read very progressive material, so themes that strongly (just strongly) contradict Western narratives should be avoided.

For example, a book on the colonisation of Palestine that exposes the oppressive nature of Zionism is mostly fine, but a book presenting Hamas as a liberation group would not be accepted (and actually illegal in my country).

You can reply with books or other reading lists that we could then review and add. I'll finish this post with some examples of books on the reading list (keep in mind that it was for Black History Month, so all of the examples are on black people):

African Empires by Lyndon, Dan
Black Power: The Politics of Liberation In America by Carmichael, Stokely; Hamilton, Charles V
I Heard What You Said by Boakye, Jeffrey
The Assassination of Lumumba by Witte, Ludo de.
White privilege: the myth of a post-racial society by Bhopal, Kalwant

Thanks in advance!

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joined 10 months ago