https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Help:Joining_PCMA_chat

https://fstube.net/w/7FcoHYC5aHaqZh42NWN19g

I don't think necessarily everyone who likes loli or shota are also MAPs, but there's obviously a very large overlap between the two.

IMO most people who do this are either just trying to save face or are in denial about their attraction. You'll often hear from gay people how they thought they were straight and were in denial about their sexuality for a long time before accepting themselves, so I think a big chunk of the people who say they're lolicons/shotacons but not MAPs are having the same experience because society is extremely antagonistic towards MAPs.

PDF version (watch out for fake download button ads)

A book on the history of public perception of pedophiles and child sexual abuse throughout the 20th century. It's interesting to see how often and how dramatically public opinion has shifted, driven by fads in psychology, law enforcement looking for more power, and individual criminals who got outsized attention. But there has always been absurd, baseless bullshit, whether we're morally defective imbeciles or insatiable monsters.

It's been a while since I read it, and I don't remember a lot of specifics off the top of my head. I'll have to go through it again sometime. Good to know how things got to where they are, and it's somewhat reassuring that big panics have come and gone before.

y'all need to treat age regressed system members with the same delicacy as actual kids.

just because they have some degree of sexually, and inhabit a body over 18, doesn't mean you should start doing hard kink without asking

@map

Repost since Burggit exploded yesterday.

Not sure if the post is still up on rqd2 but oh well.

i always find it odd how the media paints MAPs as child abusers, even the ones who haven't touched a child in their lives. most MAPs i have met care about children to a heartwarming amount and show the most raw tender love i've ever s33n. even moreso than non-MAPs. hell, even moreso than parents

maybe it's because we tend to view children as actual living, breathing humans. we view them as equals and find their innocence and curiosity charming

personally, as a hebephile, i find natural occurrences in t33nagers to be adorable and hot because i genuinely love t33nagers. the way their body changes quicker than they are ready for is wonderfully cute, and i want to support them through it unconditionally. i understand what it f33ls like, after all

i've researched that most people who rape children (emphasis on rape, without consent) are biastophiles or extreme sadists (no shade to either whatsoever) who enjoy the f33ling of power they get out of it. most of the time they are not MAPs

to add onto this, i believe that we as a society should have less of a harsh view towards biastophiles/rapists. they are people just like us, and deserve therapy and sympathy despite their horrible actions. the same goes for serial killers, imo. the stigma often surrounding them is very misguideded and doesn't look towards the actual issue, but rather what they have done. rather than working to decrease child abuse cases or severe trauma, they are adamant on demonizing criminals and ostracizing them for what they have done.

this is not to say that they aren't at fault whatsoever, and what they did was horrible, but it is to say that they deserve more sympathy

anywho, back to MAPs

i find oftentimes that we are painted in a similar light for things we haven't even done. we are treated as horrible evil child molesters regardless of if we have had relations with children or not. we are treated as ticking timebombs that are counting down to the day we molest a child, despite most of us having good enough self control not to

what are your thoughts?

In the thread "Has anyone had a relationship with someone much older when they were younger? How do you feel about it now?" some of the women describe what may legitimately have been abusive relationships. If they were indeed abusive, as is not uncommon even for adults, they have my fullest sympathy.

However as we see in some other comments from that same thread these negative feelings may instead be an artifact of the dogma that society pushes, stating that relationships between adolescents and adults, or even young adults with older ones are inherently creepy and bad.

A number of answers were from women who said they still felt neutral or positively about their former older partner, but who were nonetheless still convinced that the relationship was inherently inappropriate for whatever reason:

Yeah. I sometimes find it hard to reconcile a) the fact I believe the age gap was inappropriate and I don’t support his behaviour but b) I don’t hate him and if we ran into each other I’d probably still feel amiable towards him. I’ve decided it’s probably not unusual to feel that way.

This is just some armchair psychology on my part, but I believe that she feels conflicted because deep down she knows that their relationship was not actually inappropriate. She's just attached to this idea that the age gap was inherently bad, and this is clashing with the fact that deep down she still feels positively about the relationship.

I had a relationship with someone in his late 20’s when I was 17-18. I don’t have any negative feelings about it at all, maybe because I felt like the more dominant partner at the time, even if that was just a feeling and not reality. With age and distance, I can see it was wrong and he should have drawn a boundary as the older person (at least until I was 18!) but I don’t have negative feelings towards him. He treated me better than I treated him. I was an immature young person on a power trip who brought the type of drama typical for that age and he was a steady easygoing type, so I think I got the better part of that deal in the end, though I will repeat I recognize now that he should not have engaged with someone my age in the first place.

It's kind of funny yet sad to see someone claim that her partner treated her well while she treated him badly, only to then insist that he was actually in the wrong simply because he didn't wait one extra year. Irony is truly dead.

My ex was 20 years older than me. Now that I have reached the age my ex was when we met, I realize how creepy it was for him to date someone my age.

No further explanation is given as to why this was supposedly "creepy".

Another commenter starts their answer by saying:

I have one, and happily it's not a gross predatory story, though it was still sus as hell in retrospect. Basically I met this guy when he was 48 and I was 23 [...]

She then proceeds to describe a normal relationship with a guy who might arguably just have been somewhat immature, which for some unexplained reason she then labels "sus" despite them both being adults.

The next woman states:

I was 21 and he was 30. Felt nice being the young hot thing and he was a really attractive PhD student. Sex was crap for me until I was 24 and spoke up for myself and what I wanted but I never felt like he was taking advantage or grooming. If you question that relationship now and the dynamic you probably are right in doing so.

Why is questioning "that dynamic" warranted? Who knows.

Irony then proceeds to turn in its grave as a woman who started a relationship with an age gap as an adult chips in to insist that, despite her having a healthy relationship, you should still be wary of age gaps.

I’m in my thirties and have been in an age gap relationship since my late twenties, but while our relationship is healthy and it specifically works for us, I never recommend age gap relationships and I caution against them, particularly for anyone younger than 25. There are a lot of predatory men out there. Not worth it especially if you aren’t experienced in relationships or don’t know how to set boundaries and hold high standards for behavior and values.

I'm repeating myself, but you get the point. So many allusions to some nondescript "inappropriateness" about the age gap (Even for adults!) despite positive memories from their relationships. This is what actual grooming looks like: People being gaslighted into resenting their exes for no reason other than some arbitrary dogma imposed by society. Although the book "We were NOT abused!" by David Riegel focused on man-boy relationships, it feels appropriate to quote it here:

[...] But the vast majority of emotional and psychological harm that occurs is caused not by the relationship itself, but by the interference of outsiders who feel that they must create a punishable perpetrator/victim situation out of a perfectly consensual and benign relationship.

Society would do a monumental service to boys by discarding these artificial restrictions on their right to investigate and enjoy their own sexuality at their own pace, on their own terms, and with companions of their own choosing.

something something horseshoe or whatever

I've mentioned before how it's really baffling to me that there are any MAPs on the right of the political spectrum. I guess it's possible that this is just some weird kind of parody/joke, but I've seen enough MAPs say racist shit to know that there's a reasonable possibility that this person is completely serious.

Truly weird that someone could reconcile being a trans MAP and also a white supremacist.

Thank you, @iwakan , for sharing this with me. https://www.uryourstory.org/index.php/social-criticism/188-positive-memories

(This is from my perspective as a YAP, but I imagine this applies to other "harmful" paraphilias as well.)

I'm on another Fediverse instance (which I will not name because I know the moderator goes out of their way to seek out and slander people badmouthing them and their instance) under a different username and the constant militantly anti contact rhetoric I see on there is exhausting. It's all "children can't consent" and "if you're pro contact you're a predator and we want nothing to do with you" and a whole lot of pathologization of pedophilia. I, of course, stay quiet about it on there, and I only put up with it because they also host a lot of kodo/kodocon (they say it's okay if it's purely fictional) and I haven't found a better instance to migrate to. (Also, the mod is extremely ageist in general; they are extremely adamant about keeping minors off of their instance, and they don't even try to say it's just for legal reasons, they legitimately think minors shouldn't be looking at porn.)

Yes, child sexual abuse is bad, but it's not predatory to acknowledge that "minors" (I hate that term, it feels very dehumanizing) have sexual desires – not just teenagers but prepubescent children as well – or to suggest that they should be able to explore their sexuality with other people if they so choose. I don't want to force myself on a child who isn't interested in sex or romance (either in general or with adults). Many youth won't be interested – as is their right. But that is not indicative of all youth, and I believe that if a child or teenager wants to enter a relationship with an adult, they should be able to do so.

When do these people think people should have sexual autonomy? When they turn 18? What's so magical about that age that turns people from pure, innocent, sexless babies who don't deserve autonomy "for their own protection" to fully fledged adults who are predators if they so much as eye a slightly younger friend wrong?

Also, someone tried to use a screenshot of the MAP wiki's page for "pro contact" (which I don't feel like looking up ATM but to paraphrase it said "pro contact people believe that sexual and romantic contact between minors and significantly older adults are not inherently harmful or predatory and should be permissible") as a gotcha to say "if you're defending pro contact MAPs this is what you're defending, don't lie about what 'contact' means!" Though I suppose maybe some people were saying that "contact" in that situation means "any kind of social contact, not necessarily romantic or sexual" and in that case that is an incorrect definition of "contact," but it still seems absurd to me on some level.

While looking for a photo to use in the meme I just posted to !mapmemes@rqd2.net I found out that there are lots of groups and albums on Flickr dedicated to the beauty of kids with hundreds of thousands of photos and tens of thousands of members. And some of the pics include nude or semi-nude kids too.

It's both funny and sad how in our sexophobic and puritan society you can recognize and admire the beauty of children even in the nude as long as you don't "sexualize it" (whatever normies think that means). But the moment you recognize that this beauty can extend into the realm of sexuality you're suddenly a "freak", "groomer", "degenerate", plus a number of other nasty labels that non-MAPs like to put onto us.

The way society tries to inherently separate kids from sexuality despite the fact that many children enjoy exploring and expressing their sexuality and that a significant chunk of adults find kids attractive is nothing short of pathetic. I'm reminded of an excerpt from a book I once saw on Reddit:

Perhaps unsurprisingly this is not the most well-informed and unbiased article on MAPs, but it's still interesting to read about what they thought of us as they read through the posts in these darknet forums.

While the article was written by someone at Cracked, the info itself comes from "Pam", an undergrad student who's supposedly not a pedophile herself and was just infiltrating 7axxn to get info for her research project (never even heard of this forum before, probably long dead and gone). She has 5 main takeaways from her "research":

1. In The Dark Web, You'll Find A Whole Pedophile "Community" (They talk about how there are quite a few forums in the darknet with thousands of users.)

2. There Are Two Opposing "Camps" Of Child Molester (Pro-abuse (hurtcore) and pro-contact but anti-abuse. Of course, the writer believes that all sexual contact with children is abuse so they don't care about this distinction.)

3. For Some People, It's A Family Business (Yes, lots of pedophiles have sex with their kids. What a shocker.)

4. Child Molesters Have A Handbook (They found out about The Pedophile's Handbook.)

5. They Are Very Good At Staying Anonymous (Yes, most of us don't dox ourselves and avoid giving out personal information. Surprising, I know.)

I remember playing Omega Ruby shortly after it came out and being vaguely aroused by the male Tubers (pictured here). It came out in 2014, so I would have been at least starting puberty by then, and I was definitely old enough that my attraction to him would have been seen as aberrant. My sex education was surprisingly comprehensive for a Mormon, as I was told about the mechanics of PIV sex, but I didn't fully made the connection that my arousal for the Tuber was sexual in nature. (My hydrophilia was also involved somehow, so that probably confused things.) To be fair, I wasn't having fantasies about sticking my dick in him or anything, it was, again, just vague feelings of arousal. I don't think I even started having overtly sexual fantasies until my later years of high school. (Which I chalk up to a combination of being autistic and acespec and classic Mormon sexual repression.)

See the resources linked here for some info on the flaws common in the literature about pedophilia/child sexual activity: https://rqd2.net/post/2149

I'm not sure how to elaborate on this lol

On 20 May 1997 Sebastian Bleisch was sentenced to two-and-a-half years' detention by the regional court in Schwerin for having used adolescents who were still under 16 years old in the 60 or so pornographic films he had directed since 1990. He evaded conviction on more serious charges, however, after the defence showed that the boys had approached Bleisch willingly and no psychological harm had occurred.

I believe someone had also interviewed one of the boys who worked under him, now an adult, where he said that he considered Bleisch to be a friend and mentor. I'll see if I can find this interview.

Edit: Here's the interviews. I'm not sure if this is where I first saw them or not, but it should suffice to show that Mr. Bleisch had a good relationship with the boys with whom he worked. As this page notes towards the end:

The authors quote from the verdict that says that Bleisch "ruthlessly used the developing sexuality of these youths, their curiosity, disorientation and natural urge to assert themselves", then laconically note that "the abused call the abuser a good friend".

The mental gymnastics of the prosecution in order to hold onto their biases and ignore reality is as flimsy and pathetic as you might expect.

Watching Markiplier's new Pokéfusion Smash or Pass video. He passed this one, but I would totally smash.

[Image is a screen shot of the mentioned video, with Markiplier's facecam in the top left corner. His smash counter is at 1 and his pass counter at 25. The Pokéfusion currently on screen is Leaflia, a fusion of Kirlia and Leafeon.]

This was originally a comment on a different post, but I think this is worth fleshing out into its own post. And I apologize in advance for the length of this post, I hope I am making my position clear.

I think one reason many people are turned off from youth liberation is that they conflate it with MAP activism, and MAPs are, in popular opinion, abusive monsters that need to be ostracized from society, if not outright exterminated. The blatant falsehood of this statement and of this conflation aside, one thing that anti MAPs fail to recognize is that the sexual liberation of children is only one aspect of their liberation. Children deserve to be liberated from the shackles of the nuclear family paradigm, from the prison that is compulsory state (or state approved) schooling, from the bigotry directed towards them for no other reason than them being children.

That being said, in my opinion, sexual liberation of youth is an indispensable aspect of their total liberation, and this is something that, in my experience, many youth liberationists balk at.

Children deserve autonomy and respect in all aspects of their life. Yet when we say that this includes their ability to engage in sexual activity with whomever they wish, including adults, many people will revert right back to making patriarchal statements about how youth are too innocent and naive to consent to sex, or pull out the same pseudoscience about brain development that they otherwise condemn in order to suggest that children are too immature and stupid to consent to sexual activity with anyone other than perhaps their peers. This, to me, belies both an incomplete view of liberation and a worldview still tainted by puritanical Christian ideas about sex.

Now, I think it goes without saying that sexual abuse of children is reprehensible. But so is the sexual abuse of adults, and adults are not broadly desexualized because some of them suffer from sexual abuse. And other forms of abuse against children are also reprehensible, but I have not seen youth liberationists suggest that children should be segregated from adults in any other contexts besides sexual ones.

It is hypocrisy to say "youth should be liberated and treated as equals to adults in all respects" them turn around and say that they cannot truly consent to sex except in particular circumstances. This, to me, echos how radical feminists often suggest that women are incapable of consenting to sex with men.

I will once again state: this is still only one aspect of youth liberation, and matters like deconstructing the power of the nuclear family and the current "education" system, and generally taking steps to ensure that youth have greater legal, social, and political autonomy are also critical. But their sexual liberation cannot be neglected or dismissed.

(Edits were just for formatting to make the post easier to read.)

The link is an anonymous front-end for YouTube so anyone should be able to watch without being put on a list or whatever.

In 1977 several French intellectuals signed a petition calling for an end to the discrimination against gay men and to revise age of consent laws.

While the narrator in the video argues that this is likely due to the open-mindedness, yearning for freedom and skepticism of the status quo that was prominent among French intellectuals at the time, there is at least some evidence that Micheal Foucault may have been a MAP.

There is a paucity of evidence on any supposed relationship between attraction to minors and political ideology - yet both sides of the political spectrum are quick to throw accusations of "grooming" at the other based on anecdotes.

Regardless of what may be the current relationship between minor-attraction and politics, in my opinion it's abundantly obvious that early efforts to normalize pedophilia came primarily from the left. Postmodernism and anti-establishment, anti-homophobia and pro-sexual-freedom sentiment went hand in hand with pro-MAP and anti-age-of-consent efforts.

It is for these reasons that it baffles me that there are any MAPs who lean to the right. I've seen plenty of MAPs make transphobic, racist and hyperreligious remarks so I can say that there are plenty of right-wing MAPs.

It's the left who advocates for sexual freedom, who fights against homophobia and sexism, who pushes for sex education to be inclusive of queer topics, and who advocates for the rights of transgender children. It's the right who opposes all of these things.

The trans movement is, in my opinion, one of the best avenues we have for possibly normalizing minor-attraction, as trans people and their supporters argue that it's not only harmless, but good for children to discover and define their own identities, and that they should be able to seek the medical treatment necessary to affirm this identity.

If it can be argued that kids can consent to medical treatment, it can also be argued that they can consent to sexual activity as it doesn't involve possible permanent changes and side effects. So the trans rights movement and pro-MAP movement go hand in hand, or at the very least they should.

As we see more people advocate for the acceptance of trans children and sexual liberation, and as dissatisfaction with the status quo increases across the world, I have hope that soon these sentiments will intertwine and we'll start to see more and more people advocating for the sexual freedom of children and MAPs.

Back when I was 15 I was friends with this 11 year old kid. He was only 4 years younger than me but I had been taught so 11 was too young to find attractive. Whenever I was with him I got really awkward and nervous with what I now know were romantic feelings but I couldn't face that possibility so I convinced myself he had a crush on me.

I thought it was so obvious, I feel so awkward when I talk to him bc I can tell he has a crush on me! That must be it! I went home and told my dad and all my siblings about this 11 year old boy who had this super obvious kid crush on me. I had been taught that having crushes on kids was wrong but kids having crushes was cute and innocent(as long as they didn't act on them) so I decided it was that instead.

I spent literal hours daydreaming about dating him. About meeting him again when we were older and marrying with kids, rationilising it as "wanting to imagine what it was like if he got what he wanted (bc I defo don't want it that would be creepy)".

Looking back that was very, very obvious and I don't know how I managed to trick myself like that. I don't know that kid anymore but I hope he's doing well. Who knows, maybe someday I'll meet him agin and my daydreams will come true!

I remember when I was watching Stranger Things, and Eleven got the bitchin' alt make-over I felt.. things. I was talking to my friend about it and expressing that I was scared to look up what age she was. Then I told myself I would just wait until she's legal to find her attractive, but now I don't really find her attractive anymore.

The silly brain gymnastics one comes up with to avoid accepting being a pedo, lol.

Whenever I'm out in public and kids are around I can't help but check them out and gauge how pretty I think they are. I don't really do the same to adults even though I'm also attracted to them, maybe because I don't find them quite as hot as kids. As I've mentioned in a previous post I don't think being a MAP is bad, but I can't help but feel a bit guilty about this habit of mine 😅

I've seen some MAPs say that while they find kids sexy they aren't really romantically attracted to them, but that's not the case for me. I love how kids are playful, spontaneous, happy and full of love to give, and I would like to have a kid of my own to nurture and love them.

But I'm only human... and I can't help but also find them hot as hell :P

I think I was around 14 or 15 when I started discovering this side of my sexuality. I don't remember exactly how it happened, so it was either one of two things:

I first started noticing that I was still attracted to kids a lot younger than me, which prompted me to look for loli/shota porn, and then I started to accept myself and identify as a MAP...

Or I first started getting into loli/shota, which made me realize I was also attracted to kids and then I started to accept myself and identify as a MAP.

At any rate, I was always good with computers so I quickly figured out the inner workings of the MAP world. At first I wasn't even sure if I was a MAP or not and I had this idea that I would seek professional help to "not hurt any kids".

A lot has changed since then and I've become much more comfortable with my sexuality. Thinking back to when I was younger, this pretty much echoed how I felt about being bi - going from denial and thinking that I should go through conversion therapy to being out and proud. (Well, I'm not out about being a MAP, though I am proud.)

Now the only thing I'm struggling with is trying to figure out if I'm also zoosexual or just a confused furry lol. Though because now I'm a lot more comfortable with expressing and exploring my sexuality I don't feel guilty about this possibility, and I'm more willing to accept myself if I am indeed a zoo - though even if I'm not I think the struggles of MAPs and zoos are very similar so I'll definitely still remain an ally.

Something I've talked about in the past that I wanted an excuse to bring up again is my discomfort in locker rooms. And what better excuse than to have a whole new website to post it on?

Trans people are familiar with how locker rooms with your AGAB can be uncomfortable. That's not what I'm talking about, but locker rooms to me, an MtF GL MAP, are very much a double edged sword.

It's either be with a ton of people of your AGAB (which is awful when you're like me and pass as female and are going into a locker room to get into a bikini), or be with a ton of people that you find attractive. And none are preferable especially when you're bi.

Women's locker rooms make me extremely uncomfortable. Of course being a trans woman I'm scared someone will clock me and harass me for being a creep (which I'm not), but it makes it even more uncomfortable when you have an attraction to women. I'd never in my life sneak into a locker room to get a glimpse of people naked; that's vile, but there are some circumstances where it's harder to keep my head down, especially when keeping my head up is just plain natural. But I know what I'd do if I didn't.

When I went swimming with my gf and bff at the time, sometime last year, I went to the women's locker room myself because my gf used the men's ones. I kept my head down to try and not be noticed as I changed out of my street clothes and into my two piece as fast as I could. But the whole time I could hear people in the locker room. I kept my head down so I couldn't see what they looked like or where they were, but they were families.

It's easy to not look at other women in the locker room. If I wanna see naked women I can just open Google.

But the girls?

It's not quite as accessible, legal, or (depending on circumstances) morally good to do the same with girls.

So when I'm in a locker room and I hear the chatter, the intrusive thoughts going through my mind are unbearable: "just sneak a peak, no one will see", "you've never seen a naked girl before, might as well start now", "other women are seeing them naked, no reason why you can't".

I don't consider myself a pedo with "urges". But the desire to look up and sneak a glance in these scenarios is so unbelievably tempting.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

I ended up talking with my bff and gf about it, but I just told them I didn't wanna be perceived as a pedo because I'm visibly trans and there's a lot of stigma and conspiracies against trans women. But what I didn't tell them was that I was also uncomfortable because I am a pedo.