112
Conservatives Quickly Turn Against “Idiot” Marjorie Taylor Greene
(newrepublic.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
112 points (85.9% liked)
Conservative
403 readers
59 users here now
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
-
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
-
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
-
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I support Ukraine, but we have to limit what we send. We can't send things that most likely would be captured, or that would put the United States at risk by depleting our stockpiles. It isn't our war to fight.
It isn't our war to fight? Do you have idea what happens if Ukraine loses, and Putin absorbs that territory? Don't suffer Trump's lies, we absolutely do need NATO.
If Ukraine falls, as an American how does it change my life? It doesn’t. What treaties do we have with Ukraine for defense? Zero.
And who mentioned nato? Ukraine isn’t a member of nato
If Ukraine falls, it makes Russia more likely to invade other places, and it makes China more likely to invade Taiwan.
We can either end this war now by punishing Russia enormously, or the war grows to become WW3.
Maybe our NATO allies should have spent that 2% as was suggested.
We need to prepare for Taiwan, where we have a verbal agreement.
I have no issues sending weapons to Ukraine but it can't be at the expense of Israel and Taiwan.
I am 100% against sending boots on the ground unless they keep attacking nuclear plants. That is an attack on humanity.
Fuck Israel, they’re genocidal dipshits. They don’t deserve aid.
According to our government they are not. We also have strong support for Israel. We have to meet our obligations else others won’t take us seriously.
If you feel our support is unjustified. Write your senator. Israel has a special relationship with America and right or wrong, I don’t see that changing.
That’s such a weird question. No but I don’t see a mass order or genocide and the government validates what I’m perceiving.
The government validates all the lies I’ve heard about a genocide. It confirms what I already thought was true
No, it's called validation. A confirmation bias is where you seek sources that agree with you.
I know it stings to be wrong but there isn’t a genocide according to the government and most governments of the world. It’s weird you want to say they are wrong on Israel but right on Ukraine.
I will not convince people who are disconnected from the real world. My goal is to make sure the truth is out in the open.
So the Ukrainians are morally wrong for killing Russians? I don’t think so.
And as we all know, the United States has never involved itself in other nations' wars
Eh. The US has twice proven that it can ramp up war production enough to go from essentially no war capacity to overwhelming force very quickly. Weapons manufacturers are salivating at the chance to satisfy wartime demand. And who are we holding back in fear of? China? If we get into a tangle with China, weapons reserves are going to be the least of our concerns. Russia? Ukraine - tiny little Ukraine - is showing that the mighty Russian war machine is mostly façade over rusting or entirely missing parts. The only threat Russia presents the US right now is nuclear - and weapon stockpiles aren't going to protect against that.
So who are we afraid of? Canada? Honestly, I think Canada is the real threat; I think they've been putting on a friendly face and biding their time, waiting until we've given all of our ordinance in support of another country, and then they'll sweep in and take back Old Fort Niagara, Youngstown, and Buffalo, and then they'll have all the tourists mwahahaha!
This "holding in reserve" is a cop-out. We're giving Ukraine stock that was due to be rotated out for newer stuff anyway; they aren't getting latest-gen anything, and if the US goes into any conflict and burns through enough latest-gen munitions and has to reach into old stockpiles, I think we're in for a rough ride no matter what.
Are you talking about ww1 and Ww2? Those were very different times.
This is the easiest way to tell someone never served or has any military experience.
The javelin, patriot, 155mm, stinger, mlrs rockets, etc are all current issue. Isn’t the exact same thing we fight with. It’s the latest generation of fighting weapons.
Oh, yeah? Your meter is completely off, then.
Ordinance gets replaced on the regular. A lot of it gets used during training. When I was in, once a year we'd go to the range and get issued a ton of everything: cans of ammo, grenades of all sorts (but mostly smoke, and no CS, and no LAWs). We'd be there most of the day. More than once Saw gunners from our platoon would would melt barrels trying to go through all the ammo we were issued. One time, there was still a dead tree standing down range and my buddy and I spent about an hour trying to cut it down by shooting it with our M16s. Even the TOW gunners were there doing their thing, and they were usually pretty stingy with the TOWs. I think they left out the CS and LAWs because someone in command decided that was just a little too risky; but otherwise they have us a ton of everything. Like, we would be there all day, trying to find things to shoot at from our trench.
There was no objective to these exercises except to burn ammo. There were no targets except some rusted out old trucks, like maybe deuce & halfs? They were fairly unrecognizable by the time we saw them. Some long-dead tree trunks. Now that I've spent some decades in corporate US, what it reminded me must of was departments wildly trying to spend the rest of their budgets before year's end.
It was glorious; just sending destruction downrange with nobody shooting back. Maybe there was some hidden purpose, but there orders were: "here's ammo. Shoot it all."
Then you should know we are giving Ukraine very formidable weapons. I get tired of people downplaying the quality of weapons we are sending. We are sending some solid weapons to Ukraine. It’s not old obsolete equipment. It’s the same equipment we use.
And law? That would date you. I never saw a law only the at-4
I'm not downplaying what we're giving Ukraine; I was taking objection to the idea that the US barely has enough munitions to defend itself from a nebulous enemy and we need to be careful about how much we give out.
Yup, my service was decades ago.
https://www.voanews.com/amp/without-more-funds-us-unable-to-hit-ammunition-production-goals/7510881.html
Right now we are making 28k a month. Ukraine shoots 7k a day. That’s 210,000 a month.
That’s the issue. It’s one I didn’t know we had. I always assumed we could ramp up quickly since that’s a standard round.
It's the "without more funds" part that's misdirection. I still do assume that we could ramp up, quite quickly. These are private companies producing the munitions; if the gvmnt suddenly doubled the contract funding, I would be greatly surprised if we discovered production couldn't keep up.
Most the plants are not privately owned. They are government owned and contractors work in them.
Most of these plants were shutdown as a cost savings measure. That’s been the issue
https://thegunzone.com/who-manufactures-ammunition-for-the-us-military/
https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/artillery/
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/naval-launchers-and-munitions.html (just to include one of the other branches)
I could find more, if you like. All claim to be the manufacturers of ordinance. It's not just the ammunition, the guns themselves are manufactured by private corporations. The M777 Howitzer is produced by BAE Systems. It's always a private contractor who designs and delivers weapons and ordinance.
Yes the guns are but that isn’t where we have the shortage. The shortage is the ammunition. A gun isn’t useful without ammo.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2023/10/17/middletown-iowa-ammunition-plant-will-make-more-of-the-artillery-shells-ukraine-is-firing-at-russia/71134562007/
There is another in Pennsylvania. Both are owned by the army and contractors make the ammo.
Same with lake city but they make rifle rounds.
If you can find where private companies are making 155mm in their own facilities I’d like to see it. I’ve only found it made in army arsenals.
OK, let's ignore small arms and focus on things a civilian simply can't buy, like howitzers and tanks.
The actual munitions - not the weapons, but the ammunition - are manufactured by a variety of companies, including Aerojet Rocketdyne and Nammo. Nammo makes a bunch of ammunition, from small arms, to cannon ammo for the M1 to 155mm Archer L52 howitzers. AR also produces ammunition for the A10's GAU, and a bunch of other munitions and munition parts for more complex munitions (missiles & bombs). Both of these companies make TOW missiles - again, the munitions, not the weapon systems.
Lockheed Martin makes the actual Patriot missiles - that article incidentally talking about the very ramping-up we're discussing.
The US outsources all weapons and ammo manufacture to the private sector. This is exactly why it's called the Military Industrial Complex, and why Eisenhower warned against it.
Those are the contractors. The government owns the facilities at least for 155mm. Can you show which factory makes the 155mm round? You seem to be confusing the contractor with the factory. Two two are not the same.
Missiles may be done differently; I have not found an article talking in detail about who owns what with the production of The Patriot.
As I cited previously, we are ramping up, but not quickly enough to meet their needs. Ukraine needs about 210,000 155mm rounds a month. We are generating about 28K a month.
That goes against all the news article. We can’t keep up with the demand from Ukraine unless we deplete our stockpiles. If China acted up, Iran or if we needed to fight Russia we wouldn’t have the supply to do it.