116
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
116 points (96.0% liked)
No Stupid Questions
36034 readers
2262 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
After reading some of the comments and pondering this question myself, I think I may have thought of a good analogy that atleast helps me (even though I know fairly well how LLM's work)
An LLM is like a car on the road. It can follow all the rules, like breaking in front of a red light, turning, signaling etc. However, a car has NO understanding of any of the traffic rules it follows.
A car can even break those rules, even if its behaviour is intended (if you push the gas pedal at a red light, the car is not in the wrong because it doesn't KNOW the rules, it just acts on it).
Why this works for me is that when I give examples of human behaviour or animal behaviour, I automatically ascribe some sort of consciousness. An LLM has no conscious (as far as I know for now). This idea is exactly what I want to convey. If I think of a car and rules, it is obvious to me that a car has no concept of rules, but still is part of those rules somehow.
Thing is a conscience (and any emotions, and feelings in general) is just chemicals affecting electrical signals in the brain... If a ML model such as an LLM uses parameters to affect electrical signals through its nodes then is it on us to say it can't have a conscience, or feel happy or sad, or even pain?
Sure the inputs and outputs are different, but when you have "real" inputs it's possible that the training data for "weather = rain" is more downbeat than "weather = sun" so is it reasonable to say that the model gets depressed when it's raining?
The weightings will change leading to a a change in the electrical signals, which emulates pretty closely what happens in our heads
Doesn't that depend on your view of consciousness and if you hold the view of naturalism?
I thought science is starting to find more and more that a 100% naturalistic worldview is hard to keep up. (E: I'm no expert on this topic and the information and podcast I listen to are probably very biased towards my own view on this. The point I'm making is that to say "we are just neurons" is more a disputed topic for debate than actual fact when you dive a little bit into neuroscience)
I guess my initial question is almost more philosophical in nature and less deterministic.
I'm not positive I'm understanding your term naturalistic but no neuroscientist would say "we are just neurons". Similarly no neuroscientist would deny that neurons are a fundamental part of consciousness and thought.
You have plenty of complex chemical processes interacting with your brain constantly - the neurons there aren't all of who you are.
But without the neurons there: you aren't anyone anymore. You cease to live. Destroying some of those neurons will change you fundamentally.
There's no disputing this.
I agree with you, and you worded what I was clumsily trying to say. Thank you:)
With naturalism I mean the philosphical idea that only natural laws and forces are present in this world. Or as an extension, the idea that here is only matter.