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[-] Mostly_Gristle@lemmy.world 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What was it actually supposed to accomplish? I mean, I'm an American who mostly followed the whole thing via UK chat and panel shows so I'm sure I missed a ton of detail, but I don't remember there being an over-arching goal, just a lot of little nebulous promises like somehow generating an extra 350 million a week for the NHS, but with no actual plan for how any of that was actually going to happen. It seemed like the whole point was to let xenophobic shit disturbers flick the Vs at Europe, and the vague notion that once Brexit was done it'd finally be open season on "those bloody immigrants."

[-] WatTyler 176 points 1 year ago

OK, so...

Political necessity?

The reason why it happened is that the Conservative Party government was wildly unpopular in 2013-2014 with all of the indications being that Ed Miliband's Labour Party were going to storm the Conservatives at the 2015 General Election. Furthermore, ever since the Thatcher governments of the 1980s, the Conservatives were weakened by the 'Eurosceptic' branch of their party often being vocal, disruptive, difficult to work with, and harming the 'Not the Nasty Party' narrative Conservative Party Central HQ (CCHQ) had often tried to push in the 90s and the 00s.

Offering a referendum on the European Union therefore had two advantages:

  • It was a substantial, concrete policy idea that would be easy to implement and massively popular with a certain portion of the populace, not massively unpopular with the other portions, and which Labour would never offer.
  • By having a popular 'stamp of approval' on the European Union, CCHQ believed it would permanently weaken and weaken the difficult Eurosceptic portion of their party.

This is of course on the assumption that the referendum passed. And never let anyone tell you otherwise, David Cameron (then-PM) and George Osbourne (then-Chancellor; finance secretary and 2nd most important cabinet member) absolutely would not have proposed the referendum if they believed it had any chance of failing.

Furthermore, they assumed they'd be out of government and the referendum would never see the light of day. To the arrogant, and out-of-touch Cameron and Osbourne the policy was all upside.

As it happens, for a variety of reasons, the Conservatives actually won the 2015 General Election with a majority (whereas they were in a coalition before). And, as promised, a referendum was planned.

Ideological basis

For a substantial period of time (late 18th-century to mid-20th century), Britain was unquestionably the most powerful empire in the world. This is within living memory. The culture and expectation of Britain being a 1st rate world power is something that has only begun to fade within the past couple of generations. But a significant number of older people (people who vote) were raised and educated with the fair understanding that Britain was a superpower. For example, all of my grandparents and most of great Uncles and Aunts were being educated at a time when Britain still held all of India and most of Africa.

Since the Second World War, Britain's place in the world has unquestionably declined. We no longer have the Empire. We racked up tremendous amounts of debt to the United States. For periods in the 1970s, Britain was widely considered the 'sick man' of Europe. The feel good moments of the 1990s and Cool Britannia were quickly doused by the War in Iraq, where Tony Blair was universally seen as a puppet of the Bush administration.

Since the 1980s in-particular, life has changed for many in the United Kingdom beyond recognition. Trade unions were razed. Income disparity has skyrocketed. Town centres have become neglected. Internal tourism has been decimated. Cities like Leicester started becoming majority-minority. 2008 and the Great Recession tumbled the New Labour government and brought in a Conservative government. All parties at the 2010 general election bought into the consensus that the only way the country would survive would be to gut public sector spending. Healthcare would worsen. Education would worsen. Adult social care would worsen. Local government services would worsen.

A very large number of people came to the rational conclusion that, at least for them, their lives had gotten worse and would continue to get worse. But how does one consolidate this very clear observation with:

  • The Queen
  • Rule Britannia
  • Two World Wars; One World Cup
  • Largest empire ever known to man
  • The Second World War in-general, and the Battle of Britain in-particular

A lot of the media attempted to bridge this issue with a scapegoat: the European Union.

Euroscepticism

Euroscepticism first found a voice with Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. She often disagreed with a significant number of the leaders on the continent and didn't appreciate being limited in how she could act.

Thoughout the 1990s and the 2000s, the whole media knew they could gather attention by blaming various problems on the European Union. A notable young journalist, Boris Johnson, was particularly renowned for the ludicrous and inaccurate stories he wrote on European Union directives.

The European Union was an outstanding scapegoat:

  • It was 'foreign'
  • It was 'undemocratic'
  • It was 'bureaucratic'

It had something for everyone. Before the result of the referendum, you'd never hear anyone defend the EU. It was seen by most of its defenders as a necessary evil in a world we could no longer rule, and isn't it nice you don't need a visa to go to Spain? No positive case was ever put forward by anyone. There was little point to. There was never any risk of us leaving.

Now, the European Union is an imperfect project. However, thanks to the economic and cultural connections brought about by the EU, Western Europe is at the lowest risk of internal armed conflict in millennia of history. Europeans are more familiar with one another than they've ever been before. Smaller states such as Ireland remain independent and sovereign but now have defenders, and allies, and representatives that allow them to assert themselves globally.

These arguments hold much less weight on an island nation, that hasn't known armed conflict within its borders since the Glorious Revolution (excluding Ireland), who within living memory had the power and the influence to dominate half the globe.

No one appreciated the EU until it was already too late. And all of the rich newspaper editors who made bank on peddling lies about this foreign government to a lost, and disaffected public thought it'd be consequence free.

Conclusion

What was it supposed to accomplish? Nothing. The referendum was never supposed to happen, and if it did, it was never meant to pass. No one with any power or influence had any idea on what to do. What Brexit would look like. What some fringe politicians had promised was an emotional return to self-government, wealth, power, influence, independence. A turning back of the clock.

[-] wjs018@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 year ago

Excellent post. If there is an equivalent of /r/bestof this would be worthy. It is super telling that rather than stick around and deal with the ramifications of the referendum, Cameron immediately resigned. Another point of context is that Cameron had gambled his political life previously on a different referendum (Scottish Independence) and that one worked out fine, so what is the harm in trying that gambit one more time?

[-] WatTyler 16 points 1 year ago

Wow, thank you :) that's an amazing compliment. Brexit has the dangerous combination of tremendous emotional investment and piquing my interest in domestic politics. Hence the rant ๐Ÿ˜‚

[-] grue@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If there is an equivalent of /r/bestof this would be worthy.

You could make one!

[-] CybranM@feddit.nu 15 points 1 year ago

This is a superb comment! Thanks for taking the time to post it

[-] masquenox@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago

What some fringe politicians had promised was an emotional return to self-government, wealth, power, influence, independence.

And what they delivered instead was essentially Britain becoming a de-facto US-client state.

Gee, it's almost as if you can't trust right-wingers these days.

[-] Badass_panda@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Well this was insanely insightful, thank you

[-] TawdryPorker@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is a great post but I would say that there were some people who were absolutely dedicated to achieving Brexit and in large part their participation can be explained by the proposed financial transaction tax.

The idea that a supra-national entity might be able to impose a tax that could be difficult to mitigate was absolutely intolerable to various millionaires and billionaires e.g. The Telegraph owning Barclay Brothers. Any downsides from the resulting chaos, which in any case would only affect the working and lower middle classes, would be more than offset by the ability to bank offshore and retain their profits untaxed.

[-] WatTyler 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're absolutely correct and if there's one thing I wish I included it would've been a 'charitable' description of the possibilities of Brexit. The reason why it wasn't included is that I think the actual motivations of the arch-Brexiteers within parliament and the media aren't a contributing factor to why Brexit happened. They certainly had a vision for a potential Brexit but I don't think that played any role in the decision to hold a referendum, and I believe only a very small subset of the 52% voted Leave did so because they shared the 'Singapore with worse weather' vision of the Brexit elite.

[-] TawdryPorker@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, I agree. I just wanted to point out that Brexit wouldn't have happened without some fairly serious money being put behind it (UKIP's funding had to come from somewhere and there were not one but two pro-Brexit campaigns Vote Leave and LeaveEU) and that money had to spent with a purpose.

[-] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Smaller states such as Ireland remain independent and sovereign but now have defenders, and allies, and representatives that allow them to assert themselves globally.

This is quite a long-winded way of saying that we're a puppet state, money laundry and unsinkable aircraft carrier for the USA.

[-] WatTyler 9 points 1 year ago

I will not abide you talking Britain down...

... we also launder Russian money.

[-] MrSangrief@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

As a "foreigner" from the continent, thank you so much for taking the time to so clearly summarise this complex situation.

[-] RolyRamen@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Incredible explanation that captures how I've felt/viewed the whole debacle.

[-] bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

Great post dude.

[-] motorwerks@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

And they would have gotten away w/ it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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