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submitted 6 months ago by nehal3m@sh.itjust.works to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml

The person on the left is carrying bags, the one in orange is a delivery driver and a couple of people are wearing backpacks. Aside from car brained, Damaris is also blind.

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[-] angelmountain@feddit.nl 25 points 6 months ago

People lived before cars, people will live without them.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 6 months ago

Not if cars destroy the planet with us first.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Throughout history, most people have lived within an hour of work.

The biggest difficulty is retrofitting cities that have developed in the last century. Places that have been around for centuries were developed with walking in mind. Places that were developed around the automobile and climate contril are very difficult to convert.

The world has both quadrupled in population and urbanized over the past century as the car became the primary mode of transit in much of the world.

The only thing that makes transitioning even possible is that the landlord class would love to return to feudaliam.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 3 points 6 months ago

It's actually still doable, but requires some creative thinking to undo the damage done for half century. Train can carry people from suburb into the city, the last mile can be solved either by brt, tram, or by micromobility. Bus, tram, and bicycle need their own dedicated lane for this to work nicely. This won't necessarily prevent people from driving but it will make driving not the only way to go to work.

Places that were developed around the automobile and climate contril are very difficult to convert.

Iirc Amsterdam is basically that, it used to be car-centric but the government take away that monopoly and give it back to bicycle and micro-mobile. Paris is another recent example on how bicycle usage is rising if given the proper safety infrastructure to ride around. It's also a car-centric city before this.

It's not that it's hard, it's just lack of political will and dinosaur way of thinking. It's something that never crossed their mind.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Your examples are cities that are hundreds of years old and we're absolutely initially designed around walking.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 1 points 6 months ago

Cities design around walking is technically harder because the space limitation if they want to share it with car, but tend to have everything in close proximity, which in that case it's far easier to just ban car from entering and cater the street to just pedestrian and bicycle/non-electric scooter. Cities design around car however, is easier to convert, as they tend to have wider road and more lane for car. They just need to take away one lane and give it to cyclist and that's it. The only hard part is going through the legislation and carbrain.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Okay. Great. Downtown is now walkable.

How do people get downtown?

The thing about auto-centric design is that it covers transportation from end to end. Other methods require a much more complicated network of fist and last-mile solutions that aren't easily adapted.

"Just use park and rides" doesn't solve the problem. It just moves the traffic to the transit stations. And now it's more expensive and slower than the existing system.

Houston put in a light rail system that costs 1% of every dollar spent in the city, costs a ton to ride, adds 45 minutes to a trip downtown, and drastically increases the odds of your car getting broken into at the park-and-ride. So yeah - there's pushback against expanding it.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 2 points 6 months ago

It just moves the traffic to the transit stations

The first step and the mindset is already wrong, focusing on moving traffic instead of removing traffic. So yeah, of course it wouldn't work. Houston failed at it doesn't mean other city would fail too.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

People can't travel 30 miles from their home to the office entirely using public transit. Walkable cities and light rail are Last-mile. Heck - throw in high-speed for the majority of the transit and you still have a huge first-mile problem, which is by far the hardest to solve.

The reasons modern cities are designed around cars is because cars are flexible. Add a street for a new row of houses and every single one of those points is connected to every end point in a single step. No new scheduling, routing, or transit lines required. Problem solved with a little asphalt.

It's an easy solution, and backing out of it is very, very difficult because it must be replaced with a complicated, expensive solution that's less-convenient for most users.

I'm not anti-transit at all, but people around here seem to believe that a city can be fixed with the power of wishes and fairy dust just because another city that covers 1/10th the area and was developed hundreds of years before auto-centric decelopment ago managed to do it.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 1 points 6 months ago

People can't travel 30 miles from their home to the office entirely using public transit.

Does ALL Americans travel 30 miles for work?

Walkable cities and light rail are Last-mile. Heck - throw in high-speed for the majority of the transit and you still have a huge first-mile problem, which is by far the hardest to solve.

Foldable bicycle? Kick scooter? Skateboard? Frequent scheduled tram? Frequent scheduled buses? Walkable suburb?

The reasons modern cities are designed around cars is because cars are flexible.

So does all those micromobile.

Add a street for a new row of houses and every single one of those points is connected to every end point in a single step. No new scheduling, routing, or transit lines required

That's what called lazy design, and that's why american and all the people from car dependent city are so miserable about their daily commuting.

Problem solved with a little asphalt.

Our definition of "little" might be a bit different.

It's an easy solution

And a costly one. Maintaining road for car is far more expensive than for public transport because of the amount of people each mode of transport carry.

backing out of it is very, very difficult

It's difficult because it's written into stupid law by stupid politician. That's what i called lacking political will.

because it must be replaced with a complicated, expensive solution that's less-convenient for most users.

It's not even about replacing one for another, it's about providing a good, viable option, and not a half done one then call it a day, to people who want to use such infrastructure.

I'm not anti-transit at all, but people around here seem to believe that a city can be fixed with the power of wishes and fairy dust just because another city that covers 1/10th the area and was developed hundreds of years before auto-centric decelopment ago managed to do it.

Nobody think that, that's just strawman argument. You know why people around here don't take you seriously? Because you never pay attention to what their stand are. There's a reason carbrain is a popular term with urbanist/pro-strong town because car people just can't seems to wrap their head around on the concept of giving people the option for viable alternative transport. Literally every car brain i met seems to believe everyone is living on some edge case hence car should be the only transport, they never seems to think edge case is just that, edge case.

https://youtu.be/MWsGBRdK2N0?si=1NXVnwQDm_C9B9R1

I'll just leave this video here.

this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
588 points (94.8% liked)

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