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this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
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It is time to develop a way to remove nations who clearly don’t have the EU’s best interest at heart. Hungary is long overdue to be bounced from the EU.
War is bad.
Every day we extend this war, more and more people die, statistically mostly civilians. While we are spending billions on bombs, China spends billions on healthcare, education, and infrastructure.
And for what? So that the part of Ukraine that was trying to secede during the civil war has to stay? Because Russia is going to start a war with NATO after spending a hundred thousand lives trying and failing to avoid having most of its population and industry a few hundred miles from a hostile NATO member?
This is in nobody's interest except the shareholders of weapons manufacturers.
War is bad.
Nobody was trying to secede. Ukrainians would like to stay Ukrainian and it’s good to help people who want help.
What of the Russian-speaking population who was still in revolt before the invasion? You know the civil war and all that?
Oh the Russian speaking population that sprang up in rebellion from nowhere in pretty much a single day with a clear and organised command structure from day one, with matching gear, uniforms and weapons and a bizarrely poor understanding of the local geography despite supposedly being locals. You know they attacked a movie theatre because they thought it was a local government center? Those rebels? The ones the locals didn't recognise? The ones whose casualty numbers had a weird correlation with Russian servicemen dying from unexplained causes? Those rebels?
Now I normally don't call 'Russian bot/troll' too often but Russian propaganda about this is so poor I have a hard time coming to any other conclusion.
Do you honestly not know that most of eastern Ukraine speaks Russian? Like this is an easily verifiable fact you can just google.
Not everyone who speaks Russian wants to be Russian.
True, from the vitriol I've seen directed at Russians living in former Ukrainian territories, it'd genuinely be a toss-up whether they'd go with the guys who invaded and occupied them or the ones who passed anti-russian laws and have banderites talking about ethnically cleansing them in parliament.
There's really no good outcome for anyone involved, and a longer war makes all of them worse.
Tell Putin
Both parties agreeing to peace as soon as possible would be ideal, but we only need one party to stop this war. I don't speak Russian and my country is not enabling Russia to continue the war, it's enabling Ukraine to continue the war.
But if I did have psychic powers and could tell Putin what to do, I'd tell him to sue for immediate peace, ideally with the occupied regions having internationally monitored referendums on whether to join Ukraine vs Russia, but ending this phase of the conflict and moving on to the decades of militia violence and terrorism ahead would be worth even giving up that.
So if your home was invaded in a war that became an unrelenting meat grinder you'd advocate surrender and submission? You'd happily allow things to degenerate into a decades-long insurgency? You'd happily endure the heavy-handed crackdowns the invading government enforced on anyone and everyone who held even the slightest shred of sympathy for the insurgents? You'd accept that the bloody and brutal insurgency was better than the full-scale war despite the constant uncertainty? No, you wouldn't, would you? You'd advocate surrender and submission again. You'd tell the insurgents to lay down arms because people were dying, you'd tell them that enduring the invader's harsh rule was better than the suffering inflicted in the fight. You'd tell them to give up.
I do not understand how you do not see the stance you take as the insult it is. I do not understand why you think people should stand down as their freedom is stripped away from them. Putin has made it clear, in a great many speeches, that they resent and reject the idea of Ukranian identity. Yet you tell the Ukranians to surrender and hold no ire to the Russians who levelled so many Ukrainian cities with artillery.
We're getting a decades long insurgency whether Russia or Ukraine controls the region. There was an insurgency before the war, and there's sure as hell gonna be one now. Ending the war is the only way we can slow the rate things are getting worse for the people there.
As far as which insurgents, that's much more complicated, you can't just say all insurgent factions are good or bad.
I should really proofread my comments before I post them but then again you don't strike me as worth the effort. I am well aware eastern Ukraine speaks Russian and has for a long time, I was talking exclusively about the rebels coming from nowhere.
That makes your argument worse because if it was locals they wouldn't be so radically stupid
Gotta love the Sudetendeutsch-excuse.
Stop listening to Russian propaganda? By and large it didn't exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
This escalated into open civil war with Russia supporting one side and the US supporting the other until the invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
They were fighting right until the day of the election. Zelensky was elected on a platform of ending the fighting, and he ordered them to do so, but the units refused to stand down.
They didn't stand down because Russian troops on "vacation" kept getting lost. It was an invasion from the very start.