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this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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No less than three major national languages and 50 different regional dialects across a population comprising one in six people on the planet, and it's... an ethnostate? Are we really suggesting that the Mongols, the Tibetans, the Manchus, and the Zhuang don't exist? Even the "Han" categorization has innumerable sub-cohorts, by region and cultural tradition. These would constitute entire countries elsewhere in the world.
But hey...
Maybe this looks like an ethnostate to you.
Cool, how many Tibetans hold major positions in the government? How many Uyghurs?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losang_Jamcan
For starters. Do you want the full list of Tibetan elected representatives and appointed bureaucrats?
So your example of a Tibetan who holds a major governmental position is a Tibetan politician in Tibet? Really?
Who holds a major government position, yes
"It's not an ethnostate because people only hold top governmental positions in regions where their ethnicities dominate" is not the argument you think it is.
What?
Feigning ignorance is not going to make your ridiculous argument where ethnic minorities only get government jobs involving their own ethnicity while the Han Chinese, who are an ethnic group whether you like it or not, run the country as a whole is not an ethnostate is not going to help.
The "Han Chinese" ethnic category is actually a lot less secure in its definition than one would think. Not defending the Chinese government, far from it actually. The CCP has a vested interest in promoting a unitary ethnic identity in the idea of "Han Chinese".
Despite that though, strong identities often tied to the various unique cultural differences and "dialects"(modern day linguists often consider alot of these "Han Chinese" dialects as really, distinct languages with unique and sometimes mutually unintelligible phonetic differences, with the caveat being somewhat similar grammar, tied together through a common logographic script and considered part of a broader family tree of sinitic languages), survive despite that.
It's why overseas Chinese who sequester themselves in various Chinese communities, oftentimes identify as "Cantonese" or "Teochew" and other terms that, although tied to this greater "idea" of "Han Chinese", they think to be distinct from one another.
Like they were their own ethnic groups.
"Han Chinese" is, at least I think, an idea closer to pan-ethnicity, than it is it's own ethnicity.
When it comes to the Chinese language, the main "dialect" is mandarin, and the CCP has done a good job in slowly eradicating other "dialects"(languages). With one of their strategies being, well, classifying as many sinitic languages as possible as, "dialects". The loss of these "dialects", these languages, are tragic.
"A language is a dialect with an army and navy" - Max Weinreich
Edit Addendum: In any case this shit complex and nuanced and shit. I'll post an interesting article here, because I think it applies. https://www.michigandaily.com/michigan-in-color/taishanese-family-and-other-fading-things/
In any case Fuck the CCP!
The problem is that there are lots of other ethnicities in China which are not in any way part of that supposed "pan-ethnicity" and pretty much every high-up government official that is in charge of anything outside their own ethnic group is from that "pan-ethnicity."
As I showed this person I was talking to already, you can make the same argument about Judaism, that it's a "pan-ethnicity." There are Ethiopian Jews, there are Yemenite Jews, there are Russian Jews. There are, in fact, even Chinese Jews. That doesn't make Israel any less of an ethnostate and defending either country's bigoted practices by couching behind what does or doesn't count as an ethnicity is really missing the point.
Sorry I keep editing my original post, added a few things. I don't disagree with that sentiment. Just thought I'd put out some information that not a lot of people here in the US or in Europe, may know much about.
Ok, fair enough.
They're a multitude of ethnic groups, with a wide variety of linguistics dialects, cultural affects, and regional traits
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese_subgroups
Yes, there are many Tibetan ethnic subgroups too. This also does not help your argument.
Are you absolutely sure "China has a large and diverse ethnic population" doesn't help my argument?
Israel has a diverse ethnic population, so no. It doesn't. Israel is still an ethnostate. It was even an ethnostate when it gave Palestinian territories semi-autonomy.
One of the jokes of the Israeli enthostate is how loosely it is applied. Afrikaner Protestants can convert to Judaism in order to gain citizenship, while Beta Israelis and Safardic Jews are subject to abuse and discrimination almost as harsh as any Arab native.
But then so much of the Israeli claim to diversity boils down to "we have every kind of European".
Describing China as "majority Han" means about as much as describing Europe as "majority White".
Your ignorance and your bigotry are both showing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Israel
I do look forward to finding out why those people all count as European. I'm kind of wondering if "Jew" = "European" to you for that matter...
When did I describe China that way? Please quote me. Unless, of course, you're trying to dishonestly put words in my mouth. Is that what you're doing?
My god, dude. You just built your case on "Ethnic subgroups don't count" and now you're back here defending Israel on the same grounds?
Are you some kind of weird niche Zionist-supremacist?
I will not continue this discussion with you until you show me where I said China was "majority Han."
Looks like nice chart to split china up into these areas.
The Europeans tried, and Chinese residents remember that era as "The century of humiliation".
I would have more money on the UK cracking up than China.