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Save the Planet, Put Down that Hamburger
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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I agree that we need regulation. But I think you also discount the effects of individual consumption.
In the long-ish term, the animal farming indistry has to go. It cannot be made sustainable, no matter how you regulate industry. It's just a waste of resources. So at some point you as an individual have to adapt to a vegan diet, either by choice or because there is no alternative. What will it be? Do you want to stop eating meat the moment it is outlawed?
People who cling to eating meat nowadays actively oppose regulation. Otherwise they couln't eat meat. There is still a demand. We need both regulation to end animal farming and convince individual consumers, that they have to become vegans. It's the masses who have the most power. If veganism came from the majority population, it would be far easier to regulate industry.
Would you support enforced veganism, and jailing anybody who eats or prepares meat?
Would you destroy the world for taste? I don't get where your question is coming from
I just want to be clear what your position is. You're not just encouraging veganism, you're calling on the violence of the police to beat and imprison people who eat meat.
I'm not necessarily arguing against it, I just want the clarity that you finally provided.
It's easy to suggest outlawing stuff without considering the violence necessary for outlawing things. You have clearly considered (and enthusiastically endorse) that violence.
Of course if you imprison all meat eaters but still use oil to harvest, process, and distribute all the plant based foods then the world will still burn, but that's beyond the scope of this particular issue.
Congratulations, you perfected strawmanning. I have no idea who you are replying to. There is nothing in there that I wrote.
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Why does everything have to go to the extreme end of straight to jail?
The post to which I replied said:
If they want "regulations" to "end" animal farming then I just want to be clear that they support imprisoning people who prepare or eat meat. They went to the extreme of jail without mentioning the word jail.
Mate, it's illegal for teenagers to buy R rated movies and I've never heard of anyone going to jail for it. Why can't meat be like that?
Because in this scenario we are not just disallowing meat for some people. We are utterly outlawing the production and distribution of meat. The analogy simply does not work.
Also, if R rated movies are legal for some people, that means they're regulated. Outlawing something puts it on the unregulated black market. People will be buying unsafe meat.
If you sell outlawed videos (like snuff films or rape films) you can go to jail for that. Or even for possessing them. That's a better analogy than R-rated movies which are not actually outlawed.
But you didn't answer my question. How far are you willing foe the law to go? Do you want meat eaters to go to jail? To merely be fined? What about meat producers and distributors?
Good analogy, yeah, meat should be treated like child porn.
Meat isn't addictive. If meat gives people food poisoning, then people won't eat it. That's a good thing.
I have IBS-D there are over 300 foods I cannot eat or else my intestines get shredded and bleed out immense amounts of blood. I lost over 60 lbs of weight and currently weigh 130lbs as a 5.11 male. Doctors have tried everything and after 3 years they say i will just have to live with this.
Some of the only food I can eat without issue is meat. I wish it wasnt this way, I'd love to become atleast vegetarian, but if I did I would die.
Should I be put to jail or forced to do community service in your hypothetical?
Ooh, you're like dracula! Dracula is a vampire, and he has to drink the blood of innocents to sustain his immortal body or he'll die. So his life centers around violating other people in a bloody and vaguely sexual cycle of violence. This is a classic Morbius sitution. It's a trolley problem, except that you're the only person on the first track, and you can pull the lever to switch the trolley onto a track with dozens of innocents.
So you are calling me a monster because of a medical condition that I cannot help? Excuse my literal autism diagnosis, just trying to understand what your saying.
Well most monsters can't help being monsters either. "I'm a vampire and I don't want to be" is a VERY established trope that really saw a surge in popularity in the 90s. That trope is also at the very core of the werewolf myth, and it's present in zombie stories too. You know, the survivor who hides their zombie bite and gets everyone else killed through their hubris. They didn't choose to be bitten by a zombie, but they did choose to harm others through their actions. Like you! You're a monster movie trope.
People like you make me depressed and sad. Would you rather I stop eating meat and just die from malnutrition? Maybe I should just die.
I oppose violence in all forms. You ending your life would be a violent act, just as you paying to have animals killed so you can eat them is a much greater violent act.
And honestly your post is giving me suicidal thoughts. Im a monster right?
Oh so then i will just stick to eating only potatoes and die that way then.
I wish you never have to suffer my condition.
People like you make me depressed and sad. Would you rather I stop eating meat and just die from malnutrition? Maybe i should just die.
So your answer is that you do want meat eaters to be arrested by the police, tried in court, and sent to prison.
You think law is synonymous with cops? What kind of excuse for an anarchist are you!?
No, I don't support jail for anyone, because it's a bad way to solve crime. I think anyone who eats meat should be sentenced to something productive like community service, or therapy to get to the bottom of why they think they have the right to kill others.
I would refuse that community service and therapy. What would happen then?
At that point you aren't being punished for the (hypothetical, in this scenario) "crime" of eating meat, but instead the crime of not obeying your sentencing.
In the same way if I refuse to pay a parking ticket they can (eventually) lock me up for noncompliance. You wouldn't make the argument that I'm being locked up for a parking ticket in the same way no one would argue you bring locked up for avoiding your community service sentence is akin to being locked up for eating meat.
Granted, a less extreme approach would just be to tax the everliving shit out of meat production and use the proceeds to mitigate the environmental impacts as well as provide assistance for the lower income families who may be otherwise disproportionately impacted. Sin taxes can be very effective if done properly.
Either way, you're just being hyperbolic.
Well then under communism, you wouldn't be invited to any of the cool parties, and you'd be refused service at most non-essential places like restaurants and gyms. People would think you're a weirdo.