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It’s Just Ol’ American White Supremacy All the Way Down
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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US Authoritarianism
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The reactionary right is actively stripping rights away from people in the US and attempting to turn the country into a theocracy by re-entrenching patriarchal hierarchies and forcing us to live under their weird religious rules.
there, that's correct.
has nothing to do with the post or my comment, but it is accurate.
Then I don't know what you're talking about.
It sounded like you were saying that there aren't a bunch of people claiming to be in the middle who actively vote for reactionaries.
this meme is misrepresenting a centrist misunderstanding modern liberals and conservatives with a literal slave owner and a slave.
those parties are not analagous.
centrists don't believe that slave owners and slaves are the same, and it is lazy and detrimental to misunderstand and then misrepresent any group so that others misunderstand political concepts as poorly as this poster repeatedly does.
OP is simply trying to stoke contempt, which is unhelpful.
they are memers operating on bad information, not activists.
there are plenty of valid jokes you can make about centrists, this poster repeatedly misunderstands and misrepresents political concepts as something to be reviled and disdained for no other reason than to breed polarization.
Let me dissect the joke for you:
The overwhelmingly vast majority of people proclaiming to be (enlightened)centrists are in fact hugely regressive rightwing conservatives.
And they will happily vote the political party full of people who publicly judge black people for having slaveholders among their ancestors, without a clue as to how that may have happened.
"The overwhelmingly vast majority of people proclaiming to be (enlightened)centrists are in fact hugely regressive rightwing conservatives."
incorrect.
The point of the meme is that centrists claiming to see both sides of an issue would see something as extreme as slavery similarly, which is inaccurate trolling.
If your "joke" is simply to make things up to sow discord, you're no better than MAGA.
making people angry at entire groups for zero reason based on inaccurate information is not a "joke".
also, bear in mind that the post history of this OP troll is fraught with misinformation.
I mean, are the modern republican party's positions actually that much better? Voter disenfranchisement; removing human rights for women, lgbt people, and other minorities; economic policies that will harm nearly everyone but themselves; colluding with enemy countries; working with Nazis; I mean look at this collection of quotes from the republican candidate for governor of North Carolina. What the fuck is this?
- Mark Robinson, North Carolina’s Republican gubernatorial candidate
You're telling me this guy wouldn't bring back slavery the nanosecond he thought he could? If not, you're deluding yourself; he literally says as much verbatim. The republican party is JUST AS BAD, IF NOT WORSE than the people who fought to keep slavery. Anyone who claims to see "both sidez" is quite literally saying that those quotes and the democrats' policies are equivalently acceptable. That's basically the OP's meme.
"are the modern republican party's positions actually that much better?"
No, but this is conflating centrists with Republicans, which is lazy, inaccurate pot-stirring well, they could have just made the subject of mockery a conservative, witchwood make the comic extrapolation sensible instead of blandly incorrect.
"The republican party is JUST AS BAD, IF NOT WORSE"
thank you for agreeing with me very loudly.
this meme should target conservatives, rather than centrists, you may have missed the point of the meme.
"That's basically the OP's meme."
no, it isn't.
name is about centrists, not about conservatives or Republicans. If it was, the meme would make sense.
as the meme is, it serves no purpose except to blur political nuances and get you angry.
Does "centrist" not mean "holding views between those of the popular political positions"? Someone who is even half as bad as a republican is still wildly unacceptable. Note that choosing your views based on your own evaluation, whichever corner of the political spectrum that lands you on, doesn't make you a centrist; it is your final views being between the common reference points that makes you a centrist, regardless of your method for getting there.
"Does "centrist" not mean "holding views between those of the popular political positions"?"
roughly.
are you trying to make sure you know what centrists are?
The last part sounds more correct:
"it is your final views being between the common reference points that makes you a centrist"
I'm trying to establish that we're using the same definition of "centrist". Because if that's the case, I don't see how you could defend centrists. Their views are halfway between reasonable and unthinkable. That's not a good thing at all.
"I'm trying to establish that we're using the same definition of "centrist"."
I don't hear any questions or establishing statements.
we did kind of cover this in your earlier content.
"I don't see how you could defend centrists"
I can see how, but I'm not defending centrists here so much as I am opposing mob rule based on disinformation.
"Their views are halfway between reasonable and unthinkable."
this is a poorly thought out analysis of centrism.
I doubt if you had a list in front of you with yes or no questions on every major policy, you'd find yourself, and most people, a lot closer to the center than you like to imagine.
are you a liberal?
do you support unregulated immigration?
If not, you're a centrist.
are you a conservative?
do you support right to try medication?
If so, you're a centrist.
now think of how many policies there are, and how many you agree with the most extreme policy proposals on the left and right.
are you sure you're smack dab on one end or the other?
if not....
Is there a language barrier here?
I asked if you disagreed about a proposed definition. You said no, establishing that you agree with it.
One disagreement with a policy does not make you a centrist lol
Given the sheer amount of policies, anyone would disagree with at least one, and that's assuming there's even a defined take that each political category has on every possible policy question, which there isn't. This definition is impossibly strict and makes the concept of "centrist" meaningless. This is why I attempted to establish a definition earlier, if you're still confused what the purpose of that was.
Liberals and conservatives are not clubs that you enter and define your viewpoints based off of, with centrists being people who haven't chosen a club. Rather, "liberal" and "conservative" are rough categories of related opinions and systems of thought that one may be closer or further from. The degree to which someone is centrist is the degree to which they hold simultaneous opinions from opposing groups, or opinions that are not close to those of any group. There is a scale on which some people will be "more liberal" or "more conservative" or "more centrist" or what have you. Again, to summarize, if everyone is a centrist then noone will be. You don't have to be "smack dab on one end" to fit into a category. Just close enough. You can even define it more fuzzily (ie. center-left).
Now, given that I've estaished the common definition of centrism that the OP and I and everyone else in the tread is using, centrism in the context of American politics necessarily means that you hold a non-negligible number of conservative views, or simply don't hold strong views at all.
And given what I said above, calling centrists out for republican policies may be less accurate than calling republicans out for them, but there's a good chance it's still true and it's a more importsnt target for the message the OP was conveying.
"Is there a language barrier here?"
Yes, but I'm trying to help you with that.
"I asked if you disagreed about a proposed definition."
No, you did not ask if I disagreed with a proposed definition.
you wrote: "I'm trying to establish that we're using the same definition of "centrist"
without offering a definition or asking any questions.
"Given the sheer amount of policies, anyone would disagree with at least one"
good point.
likely with many.
I wonder how many people disagree with multiple party policies?
hm.
"...if you're still confused what the purpose of that was."
If there is one thing your comments are not, that is confusing.
"Liberals and conservatives are not clubs that you enter and define your viewpoints based off of"
source? any sliver of evidence?
what do people vote more often for?
The policies they comprehensively read and understand, or their party?
"You can even define it more fuzzily"
go for it, define party affiliation as fuzzily as you'd like.
bear in mind that this hazy regulation you're coming up with also necessarily applies to centrism.
"calling centrists out for republican policies may be less accurate than calling republicans out for them"
it is definitively inaccurate.
I don't think I'm going to bother with this convo anymore. You're not even wrong, you're just so hopelessly confused as to the threads of conversation here and frankly I'm insulted that every time you lose one you find a way to insult me. That's clearly not just a language barrier thing. Screw off with that mate
"I don't think I'm going to bother with this convo anymore"
so courteous of you to let me know you're going to stop participating the conversation by participating in the conversation.
"You're not even wrong"
i know, thanks.
"you're just so hopelessly confused as to the threads of conversation"
incorrect, I'm not confused about the conversation, I critically disagree with the basic flawed premise that nobody has been able to deny.
No matter what you want to call it, this meme, about conservative policies, features a centrist.
centrism encompasses the people on this thread slapping their knees and choking on their their guffaws while they mistakenly think they get to attack somebody who is into them.
they're just being prepped to be prejudiced toward another group who they want to peg as the other.
"Screw off with that mate".
keep not talking to me, that's really working out for you.
Oof this dude doesn't get hyperbole or jokes lol
yea, with static reasoning a bit beyond their grasp, comic hyperbole is an extra orbit out for OP.
"If your "joke" is simply to make things up to so discord, you're no better than MAGA."
GUYS HE DID THE THING
Seriously earlier you asked for evidence, can't do better than that
and you can't provide it?
Great, thanks for another useless comment.
Centrists don’t believe that now… because leftists and progressives won that battle...
You seem to not understand the Middle ground fallacy. Which is what this meme is making fun of.
If you’ve built your personal political philosophy on the middle ground fallacy (it seems like you may have given how upset you are) then you got a lot of rethinking to do.
"Centrists don’t believe that now… because leftists and progressives won that battle..."
your contention is that further back in the day, people were confusing slaves and slave owners?
you sure about that one?
"You seem to not understand the Middle ground fallacy"
in what way is somebody knowing the difference between centrist and conservative policies a fallacy?
"Which is what this meme is making fun of."
it really isn't, you should check the other comments around this post and see how many other people, like you, are incorrectly identifying the point of this meme differently.
everybody has a different idea of what this flawed meme shows because it's a Rorschach test for how little you understand centrism, horseshoe theory, or your middle ground fallacy.
"If you’ve built your personal political philosophy on the middle ground fallacy..."
I understand your confusion given you don't understand the difference between political ideologies to the point where they are identical to you.
If you've built your political ideology on proximal repetition rather than critical analysis, you have a lot more than rethinking to do.
The meme is not about knowing the difference, it’s a criticism of the position itself. Truth is truth. The truth doesn’t care what the center of any political debate is.
To be a centrist is to say well this side is saying one thing that side is saying this other thing we should try to average them out to get to the best conclusion. That is a logical fallacy.
The truth may or may not be in the center of the political debate, but that is not because it’s the center of the political debate.
To quote the Wikipedia article you’ve already been linked:
If you mean proximally repeating a point on the political compass then you’re agreeing with the point of the meme.
"The meme is...a criticism of the position[criticism] itself."
No, it isn't. it's safely blaming a small group for the behavior of a larger more threatening group.
"If you mean proximally repeating a point on the political compass"
i do not.
How? It’s making fun of the fence sitters in the discussion of whether or not slavery is bad.
Ok then explain what you mean.
"It’s making fun of the fence sitters in the discussion of whether or not slavery is bad."
nope, it's conflating slaves and slave owners, implying that centrists can't tell the difference, which 1. is a problem a fraction of a percent of extreme conservatives can be theorized to indulge in, and in no rational, accurate way related to centrists.
it is a lazy meme to get you all blindly riled at any buzzword target without considering the validity or content.
wwworking.
"Ok then explain what you mean."
what i mean by what, precisely?
I can see that interpretation. If you believe that it’s saying the centrist is smart. It’s not, it’s making fun of the self-conception of the centrist as smart.
This is posted to c/usauthoritarianism, not c/lostcause. It’s making fun of the people who fence sat on one of the most authoritarian systems in the history of the US.
At one point in time slavery was a central political discussion and was not fringe at all. Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 election with less than 50% of the popular vote. Most people were fine with the continuation of slavery as a system at that time.
At the time the centrist position was “popular sovereignty” meaning centrists would have allowed each state the right to decide for itself weather or not it allowed slavery. In other words the now right-wing position of “states-rights”.
In the grand scale of history slavery-abolitionism is a fringe far-left political position. But the left won that fight so now it is normal for nearly everyone to agree slavery was bad. Which is why centrists now believe slavery was bad. But at the time when slavery was a relevant political issue that wasn’t the case at all. Centrists took the position in the center of the 2 sides. The 2 sides were the slave and the slave-owner.
What do you mean by “proximal repetition”?
Edit:fixing grammar
while a lot of your information is accurate in certain contexts, it is not the situation political context this meme is referencing.
"What do you mean by “proximal repetition”?"
I mean that people responding positively to this meme have had their groupthink reflexes triggered by the closest (proximity) excitative buzzword and are chuckling along with the implications of that buzzword, regardless of how accurate or relevant the meme is as an idea.
All they understand is that there is supposed to be a joke, and they are content with that.
I like that you're at least providing an entire honorable, relevant context.
They’re mostly just being lazy/impatient and not explaining the full context of the meme. Mainly because this is a left-wing community and you keep defending centrism. We on the left can be impatient and hostile towards people who fence-sit especially on issues such as slavery.
I think there are understandable reasons for their hostility.
This is a political community dedicated to criticizing the US’s authoritarianism. I would say criticizing the history of slavery and racism is relevant to that political context.
Thank you :)
"They’re mostly just being lazy/impatient and not explaining the full context of the meme."
another very charitable take of the denizens here that does not hold up to casual scrutiny.
"you keep defending centrism"
I'm defending critical reasoning against lazy prejudice, whether it's propped up by unsourced news or a flawed premise in a meme.
i'm tut-tutting a mob.
it isn't going to quash the tide, but mobs should be made aware that not everybody will come along with them just because they all agreed to fraternally plug their ears and close their eyes.
have a good cybersurf, I hope your good vibes are contagious.
The meme is using a metaphor to expose the reality that you seemingly agreed with.
It's using slavery as the analogue for the modern reactionary fascism that the right has been deploying to strip people's rights away.
Furthermore there were "centrists" in both cases who dismissed the liberation efforts as extremist.
Edit: I saw the title again, and realized that may be what you're referring to so my reply didn't really address what you were talking about.
I suggest you look at the child-separation camps and research the phrases "white genocide" and "replacement theory" if you want to know what modern white supremacy looks like. Also, look to the black lives matter protests if you want to see what happens when people protest the white supremacy that touches their lives most frequently.
"The meme is using a metaphor to"
poorly, and to no good end.
it's an extremist's imagining of politics, because they don't understand what politics is enough to make a relevant meme.
"I suggest you look at the child-separation camps and research the phrases "white genocide" and "replacement theory" if..."
it's great that some of you guys are finally looking these things up, but don't assume that everybody is as ignorant of history and how it relates to modern life as the cloud who howl in support of bigotry and trolling.
they want to fight others as long as their group is bigger, there's no more to this meme than that.
Who was the one who needed examples of white supremacy again?
If you are as yet unaware of what white supremacy is or how it functions, ask for help instead of making assumptions and lashing out.
Wow, this respectful attitude really does win hearts and minds!
Thanks for explaining it to me. I'm now fully enlightened.
"this respectful attitude really does win hearts and minds!"
love to break it to you: your notion that respect counters bigotry is not rooted in fact.
it's consistently amazing the sense of holmesian entitlement one can sow and reap by making entirely groundless assumptions about others based on your own lack of information and then straining your shoulder patting yourself on the back over ypur capability to imagine.
none of what you think happened, happened.
you fantasized a hearty, researched conversation between your narrative and your own assumptions, while ignoring the available contradicting information.
You've already proven you're not worth listening to.
I'm not reading all that.
mhmm
I imagine you thought you were quite clever imagining this fantasy scenario and coming up with the most obnoxious way to describe it? Or did you fail to mention this was supposed to be self-descriptive?
In short,
"patting yourself on the back over ypur capability to imagine."
Yes, that was about you.
You can do better than "no you", and I'm not the guy you were responding to, sorry
Don't beat yourself up, this community is a mess with that, troll as the mod.
most people here are just looking for someone to yell at.
"If Republicans can fuck things up, then I'm going to fuck things up too"
it's a turd of a political opinion, but it is the float most Americans are clinging to.
from the meme on down.