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The ‘west’ is over. In the Trumpian era, Europe is on its own (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 4 months ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/europe@lemmy.ml

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In 1966, after years of friction with the US over whether France should have its own independent nuclear deterrent, the French president, Charles de Gaulle, withdrew his country from Nato’s integrated command (not, however, from the alliance itself – a common misconception) and asked all US forces stationed in France to leave. In response, the US secretary of state, Dean Rusk, asked de Gaulle: “Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?”

In a single weekend, JD Vance’s direct attacks on European democracy at the Munich Security Conference and his meeting with far-right, anti-European political forces in Germany, have given de Gaulle his historic vindication.

There are some things that you avoid saying for as long as you can, for fear that just uttering the words will help bring them into being.

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[–] realitista@lemm.ee -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah well if you build a lot of stuff and blow it up, you will have high GDP growth. But everything you built is sitting as scrap in another country. So it's not helping you much.They won't get anywhere near that of the rest of Europe though. And if they ever stop waging war their GDP will crater and they will have a massive economic collapse.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Military industry is like 7% of Russian GDP, but do go on. You're like a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[–] realitista@lemm.ee -3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I thought this was self explanatory but I guess I need to explain it. $2 trillion times .07=$140 billion, whereas $20 trillion * .02=$400 billion. Some european countries are already at 3% or higher, some plan to get there. They haven't burned through their whole stockpiles like Russia has, and they have 1 million soldiers waiting in addition to the 800k that Ukraine has already.

If Europe can muster even half the resolve that Russia has, they will win for sure. Even at a quarter or less they have a good chance, because Ukraine is already holding the line and their economy is still 10x that of Russia. Russia's not going to grow their economy by 10x.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I love how you just keep repeating that Russia burnt through their stockpiles as if it's going to make it true. This is basically all you've done in this thread. You just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over like a broken record. You have absolutely no clue regarding the subject you're attempting to debate, and you're unable to engage with the discussion meaningfully. What you're doing is just creating noise here. You can continue believe whatever wild fantasies you want, but that's not going to change the material reality of the situation.

[–] realitista@lemm.ee -3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You've produced no evidence to the contrary. Covert Cabal has done the counting. You say it's nonsense but have nothing to counter it with.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago

I did, but it's clear that you don't care about evidence. Go listen to some more propaganda over at Covert Cabal to make yourself feel better. 🤣