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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Amilo159@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

Why YSK: because what seems like equal situation from surface isn't always equal opportunity for all. And even when equal measure of help is provided, it might not be equally useful.

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[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 14 points 1 year ago

No. The system leaning in favor of one group is very much a type of assistance.

[-] toastus@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't then in the second panel still not be equal assistance?

[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 4 points 1 year ago

No. "Except for the basics of the system itself" is implied.

[-] toastus@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

I really don't mean to be contrarian but I simply don't understand how a leaning tree can be assistance in panel 1 but not in panel 2.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is assistance in both, but the point is that "equal" assistance in an unequal world (the tree still leaning one way) doesn't actually provide justice, since those the tree is leaning towards still benefit more, even when the others have "extra" assistance.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

The leaning tree represents things that are unintentional, the tree just grew like that, it wasn't on purpose.

The second panel represents intentional assistance, it was given to them on purpose.

[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 2 points 1 year ago

I really don't mean to be a contrarian

I'm not sure I believe that, but I'm gonna continue to give you the benefit of doubt for a bit more.

The assistance being alluded to is assistance on top of the system to correct the negative effects of the system.

The vast majority of the reasons any group of people is marginalised at all are systemic and stem from powerful people in the past (and, to a much lesser but still abhorrent degree, the present) writing the rules to give themselves and other people like them advantageous conditions compared to others.

[-] toastus@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt I guess.

I think I will stay at my own conclusion that this picture doesn't do a good job of pointing out the differences between the panels.

They could just as easily have given the left child the ladder from panel 1 on. That would show that just equalizing the tools and assistance doesn't create real justice in a flawed system.
I am not convinced that starting with no tools and assistance (aside from the tree that somehow is assistance in panel 1 and isn't in panel 2) and then giving them both the same ladder makes that point very well.

But maybe I still just don't quite get it.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

It represents unintentional assistance though, not a bias that exists on purpose. Ex: old building entrance is higher than sidewalk, there's stairs to go up, it wasn't the intention to cut access to the disabled, it's a consequence of the default choice.

[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 7 points 1 year ago

Some of it IS intentional, though, or (as in your own example) lack of intentionality from another time with a lot less attention being paid to equal access for people outside of the "standard human" powerful people had in mind when building structures both physical and societal.

There being a default at all is a form of discrimination and harm against the people that it disadvantages, whether or not it's intentional.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The inequality wasn't intentional, people didn't put stairs so disabled wouldn't have access, they put stairs because that's what you do when you want people to go up and it had that unintended effect.

The tree didn't grow leaning on one side so the kid on the wrong side wouldn't get apples, it grew like that because nature made it.

Giving them ladders was intentional, building a ramp too narrow for wheelchairs that's intentional... And that's the difference between panel 1 and 2, they don't have tools that are supposed to help them at first, then they are given a tool and they're inappropriate for one of them.

[-] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

Even if the inequality is completely accidental, shouldn't we do something about it? Like, we don't have to make everyone millionares, but if the system accidently makes some people suffer, shouldn't we try to change that?

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Never said nothing should be done about it, just pointing out that there's in fact a difference between panel 1 and panel 2 contrary to what people are arguing.

this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
1266 points (88.7% liked)

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