this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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FuckMusk
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He was a liberal darling and tech god, even during Trump's first term and a large part of Biden's.
I always thought that was kinda fishy, and that teslas were really elitist and economically wasteful, but man, he had a following and loads of people worshipping him. I have whiplash, and I can only imagine how that conditioned him.
The lesson is: don't worship people, especially living people. Even religious texts push forms of this, but that part seems to have been lost.
Having known several people who "snapped" and watching Musk for more than a decade, it really seems to me like that's what happened in his case. But I'm not psychologist. Few people on social media seem curious about the nature of behavior and motives, most just want to feel like warriors against Evil.
Yeah, it reminds me of Kanye West.
It’s a bit different when someone with so much power "snaps" though.
How are Teslas "economically wasteful" compared to other cars of a similar size?
"How are Teslas economically wasteful compared to other economically wasteful things?"
Don't move goalposts.
Teslas, like all cars, are absurdly wasteful on an absolute scale. And it has fuck-all to do with the energy needed to propel them, by the way; the real waste is in the way they force cities to be ruined to shoehorn them in.
Yeah cars are economically wasteful, that's obvious. I was just pointing out that that applies to all cars, not just Teslas.
Because the model 3 is about 4000lb, and the higher tiers are even heavier. They're all super expensive, even with tax breaks. The "comparable" cars are like huge luxury vehicles or massive SUVs.
That’s the nature of pure EVs. The drivetrain may be light, but the battery is extremely heavy.
If they were eco friendly, they'd have tiny (I’m talking like 5 horsepower) cheap, ridiculously gas efficient range extenders in them instead of massive batteries, which correspondingly needs a massive chassis, suspension, fire protection systems, higher power charging and control electronics and so on. That’s the nature of the EV: they're like rockets, where you pay exponential costs for carrying more mass around because the “fuel” is so heavy. And that’s setting aside the production costs of something so massive.
And they're mostly outfitted, and sold as, luxury vehicles, with the corresponding economic costs.
…Don’t get me wrong, I think EVs are incredible, the philosophy behind teslas is cool… But a 4000lb+ compact car, or a 6,600lb personal truck, are not economical or environmentally friendly, however you slice it.
The problem isnt nessecary telsa. Its the american culture. 'Economical' cars are looked down unpon. What sells is big trucks, suvs, or luxury cars. Telsa would had no chance of sucess if they didnt atleast appeal to the culture.
Not saying compact EVs cant have some sucess, the chevy bolt and nissan leaf are examples. But the amount sold are a drop in the bucket compared to the model 3... https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10567
I'm not American but having been to a few American cities. Boy do they really not give a shit about transportation outside of cars. Things can feel far apart and separated by so many lanes when you step away from the big cities.
This is fair.
Ugh, I hate how it’s big cars or nothing here, even in the city.
Combustion engines aren't more eco friendly than BEVs. Not by themselves and not in plug in hybrids. We need to stop burning fossil fuels and Musk being a jerk doesn't change that. The weight of a car doesn't mean it's per se more wasteful, especially if you're wilfully ignoring the "weight" of the burned gas for combustion engines over their lifetime.
Should we have more smaller electric cars? Sure. I'm from Europe and there are several smaller models with smaller batteries and slower charging speeds to choose from on our market. I guess the US focusing on larger, more expensive cars is not an issue of their propulsion but more an issue of the market over there as it's pretty much the same with the combustion cars. That, too, doesn't change the core issue that we need to stop burning oil and we need to do that fast and giving petrol burners a tiny battery that lets them feel good for the first ten miles won't be enough.
"But Asetru, there aren't enough batteries in the world and for the amount of batteries in a long range bev you could have five plug in hybrids on the road which would reduce the overall emissions much more than having a single bev and four new combustion engines." Yeah, no, that's not how markets work. If the car manufacturers want more batteries, the supply chains will adjust accordingly. We're already past the point where electric car manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand so this whole argument just doesn't hold up anymore.
Sure, that’s all correct in theory.
In practice, you could make sub-3000lb EV with a backup generator for less than a 4000lb one with decent range, with less material, which is a massive part of the carbon cost. I’m not talking tiny battery ICE cars, I'm talking like 50-100 mile EVs with a mostly unused generator for beyond that.
It would use far less energy overall. It would burn what tiny bit of gas it uses on longer trips with extreme efficiency. It would charge easier, because it doesn’t need as much energy to haul the massive battery around.
Pure EVs will be better in time, but you ignoring the big carbon, and financial, cost of hauling huge batteries around… and as you said, Americans aren’t keen on small, short range EVs.
If you're saying the generator remains mostly unused you could just leave it out altogether, sell the car even cheaper and just let people rent cars with longer ranges for their longer trips once or twice a year. A range extender doesn't make sense if it's "mostly unused". It only makes sense if it's used. And if it's used, it emits.
You can't base your whole argument on just using diminishing words like "tiny" for your gas engines and that way suggest that they're better for the environment. They. Are. Not.
Battery electric vehicles won't "be better in time", they're better right now. Don't buy into the fossil fuel industry's propaganda.