this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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Fuck Cars

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[–] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (15 children)

I lived in Toronto for 15 years and I never owned a car, no you very much do not need one to get to your job, go shopping, and participate in society, especially not at Dufferin south of frickin' Bloor. People who get caught speeding so often that they can't afford to keep driving can... just stop driving and take transit, which is what most people there do. The idea that they literally have no other choice and will be forced into prison is just absurd.

[–] Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net -2 points 2 weeks ago (14 children)

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence, especially the poignant knowledge about the specific area in question of the article. I will take that into consideration with the rest of what I have read about Toronto as a whole but I do not change my position on what I have said previously.

The argument isn't something so simplistic as "they literally have no other choice", which unfairly frames the argument as a judgement on the moral character of the individual. You miss the point by focusing on something so arbitrary and subjective. I'm talking about the systemic nature of the situation and the flaws in its structure by specifically making allowance for the fact that humans are fallible beings who make mistakes to purposely avoid passing judgment of the individual. Just because you were able to do it with your overall circumstances doesn't mean that everyone is in a position to be able to do the same due to their own individual circumstances. Toronto isn't a perfect utopia free from systemic flaws.

[–] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

I'm not suggesting that the moral character of the individual is in any way relevant here, and I'm glad driver's licenses are not issued or revoked on that basis. This is instead a straightforward question of public safety - anyone who consistently demonstrates that they are unable or unwilling to safely operate a motor vehicle on public roads according to the clearly posted and non-negotiable law should not permitted to risk the lives of others, and will be subject to escalating sanctions in order to accomplish that. There is definitely room for improvement in the system but it is fundamentally reasonable and sound. Yes, essentially anyone who lives in Toronto can get by without a car. Even if someone is severely physically disabled and confined to a wheelchair they can still use not only the fully accessible bus and subway system but also a separate disabled-specific transit system that provides door-to-door service using the same fee scale as the broader system. Toronto may not be a perfect utopia but it has gotten pretty close to solving this particular problem.

Ironically, people that are severely physically disabled are the ones that won't be owning cars so a good wheel-chair accessible city with reliable public transit is needed most for them.

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