Privacy

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Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

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Is there a term (akin to "privacy") which encompasses collection of personal data, regardless of the "expectation of privacy" demoralization applying? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by PierceTheBubble@lemmy.ml to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

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And if not, its existence is highly overdue.

Where tracking of privacy-sensitive activities of individuals in public, traditionally required exhaustible resources (as in agents physically shadowing targets); cameras and other sensors can (and will) track said activities of any individual in public, regardless of being targeted (not that targeting individuals is possible to begin with: only after collection, one can pinky swear not to look at, or discard information regarding non-targets).

The main difference being, one traditionally having effective "expectation of privacy" in public (unless specifically targeted by authorities: having sufficient reason to allocate resources to the individual), but in the context of modern technology we lost the benefit of the doubt. And unless never setting a foot outside again, any arguably more incriminating personal data (naked in the shower versus protesting an oppressive government) should be "expected" to be collected.

So because "privacy" is historically tainted with said demoralization, any efforts to defend "privacy" in "public" (where one can truly no longer have expectation thereof) are doomed to fail. Therefore I wish to have a term, without ambiguity introduced by any subjective matter (that is "expectancy": the individual's versus a typically biassed judge's); one that makes no distinction between personal data being collected in private, or in public.

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[–] whatiswrongwithyou@lemmy.ml -1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Of course noticing stuff will tell you about relationships. If I always stop at the same gas station at 12:30 and then lean on my truck eating a moon pie and drinking a coke a person can infer that I’m eating my lunch there.

Just like your example: if I always go to a specific house an observer is gonna reasonably assume I have a relationship to keep up in that house, even if it’s just making sure the last renters of the b&b turned off the gas.

You can’t stop living your life just because people might learn that you’re doing it. Actually you can but that’s a sign of mental illness. I’m not trying to make you feel bad here, if you are developing those types of tendencies please seek help.

You have a right and expectation of privacy when you’re (at least in the United States) on private property and out of plain view (except for the non-visible spectrum component of your presence) or on public property in a courtroom, bath, locker or changing room. When you’re on someone else’s private property and you recognize your rights are being violated somehow the expectation is generally that you will leave.

Cops and spooks have known for years and years how bad robot vacuums for example are but they havent wanted to use them as evidence because of how quickly and easily they could be excluded due to 4a violation. All they need is for the owner to testify that they never intended for the roomba to turn over information about their residence to law enforcement and the Eula is shredded.

To give you something to consider, there’s a sci fi book that describes people who take on the role of holding cameras and microphones in public as “gargoyles”. I think it’s Stephenson. Nowadays there are people who hold cameras and microphones in public who call themselves auditors.

Back in my day, there was a boom in the ownership of instant film cameras. Everyone attributed it to nostalgia and for sure in the present there are imitation Polaroids everywhere for sale marketed to that nostalgic feeling that now parents conjure up when using them, but they became parents because they were taking naked pictures of each other with instamatics because the trust they had put in each other wasn’t immediately mediated by an inscrutable, unpredictable device.

The point of that isn’t to get you into instants, but to help make it clear that the way you handle not knowing when you’re being watched or where something is going is by communicating with the people around you. Maybe it’s a phones in the fridge type conversation, you won’t know till you ask. The way you handle public interaction is by assuming it’s all being recorded.

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Of course noticing stuff will tell you about relationships. If I always stop at the same gas station at 12:30 and then lean on my truck eating a moon pie and drinking a coke a person can infer that I’m eating my lunch there.

the huge difference, is whether it's recorded in a searchable digital system, or just some random people see it who if sane have better things to do than trying to figure out where are you eating lunch.

Just like your example: if I always go to a specific house an observer is gonna reasonably assume I have a relationship to keep up in that house,

and a very limited circle of people will have information on that. that information is not easily accessible and searchable, and that information also decays over time.

I’m not trying to make you feel bad here, if you are developing those types of tendencies please seek help.

of course not, you are yet again trying to stir shit, and convince people that the need for privacy is degeneracy, that resistance is futile anyway, and that cameras on the pole pointing at your entrance are completely fine.

When you’re on someone else’s private property and you recognize your rights are being violated somehow the expectation is generally that you will leave.

the problem is majorly about public property locations that you cannot avoid while living life.

[–] whatiswrongwithyou@lemmy.ml 1 points 12 hours ago

It might be worthwhile to take a look at the nras argumentation against a firearms owners registry to better understand the recent history of searchable digital systems.

Information has not decayed over time for both our lives except on a scale that can be described as absolutely geologic.

As before, I am not making fun of you, but describing roads I have personally been down.

As I said above, the point is to help you understand that you approach the concerns you’ve voiced by recognizing that when you are in public you are being observed and clearly communicating privacy concerns to people around you.

As said way up above, I’m not trying to fight you, I’m trying to help you understand your own concerns in a broader context that has existed for hundreds of years rather than a scant decade because the context and history opens up more opportunities for you to take action than when you only consider the time that the flock camera system has been in operation.