this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2026
118 points (94.7% liked)
Fediverse
40514 readers
827 users here now
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, Mbin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is exactly the dynamic the article was describing: concerns about power concentration get answered with lists of theoretical protocol features instead of engaging with how the network actually operates. Listing technical escape hatches doesn’t address who controls the dominant infrastructure in practice.
The overwhelming majority of users rely on hosted PDSes, the main relay, and the default appview. Whoever controls those layers controls visibility, discovery, moderation signals, and reach. That’s where practical power sits. Doesn't matter whether migration is technically possible under ideal conditions because if you'll need it they won't be ideal.
Acquisitions and policy changes can happen quickly. Tools that exist “yesterday” are irrelevant if users don’t act before control consolidates, and history shows that most don’t. Claiming decentralization can wait until the last possible moment ignores how network effects and defaults entrench power long before any formal lock-in occurs.
It’s also worth noting that the original article isn’t even arguing “the fediverse is better,” yet the response immediately reframes the debate as a comparison. Even if we entertain that framing, the situations aren’t symmetrical. Yes, a fediverse instance can block migrations or misbehave but no single party in the fediverse comes close to the infrastructural dominance Bluesky Corp currently holds across relays, appviews, and user gravity. An individual Mastodon instance misbehaving affects its users. Bluesky Corp fully controls the experience of over 99% of the users on the protocol and so holds the power to shape the experience of the entire network.
The issue isn’t whether both systems have theoretical weaknesses. It’s where systemic leverage concentrates in practice. And ATProto’s architecture, particularly the cost and complexity of running the more demanding components that need to have a global view of the network, structurally favors concentration at those layers.
I'm not just listing theoretical features, these are things that happen in the network right now. Is there anything I mentioned in my comment that I forgot to give an example for?
I don't see why so many people say migration is only "technically" possible, migration can be done today. If there is more demand for third party servers, say, if Bluesky starts fucking up with moderation more, more third party servers will pop up, because right now the user concentration isn't a technical problem or fault of the protocol. I don't disagree that it's a problem.
It's not necessary to have a global view of the network to participate in the network.
It is possible to have a global view of the network without a relay using constellation, constellation instances are very cheap to run, and work by indexing backlinks. It's what powers reddwarf and recently wafrn (wafrn optionally supports relays as well).
Atproto isn't significantly more complicated than AP, it's just different.
The features are theoretical in the sense that there is no real guarantee they'd be possible after BSky corp changes their behavior and that they are in use only in the least significant way possible, for tiny and irrelevant numbers of users. But of course this is just restating the obvious again. For a network truly to be shielded against this sort of thing it should be decentralized already before.
See this for how constellation makes no difference.
@73ms @irelephant
I also wrote a more complete thing about constellation here: https://discuss.systems/@ricci/116132447206279469
@73ms @irelephant
In terms of how prepared atproto users are to use adversarial migration, I did a point-in-time survey a couple months ago: https://rob.leaflet.pub/3m7isflo7ls23
I suspect the situation has slightly improved since then, as some or all of the migration tools offer to set up rotation keys for you, but I haven't had time time to do a followup.
@ricci@discuss.systems Thanks for the link to the explanation, that thread in general and the survey! All were quite insightful.