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submitted 1 year ago by uthredii@programming.dev to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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[-] apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml 70 points 1 year ago

NixOS needs what is IMO the killer feature of Arch: the wiki.

Comprehensive documentation on not only the OS but the additional packages that we use is what drew me to Arch, and the thing that makes me swear in frustration whenever I have to use Ubuntu/Debian.

NixOS is an excellent OS that has the promise of being every bit as hackable as Arch, but far more stable. Problem is, configuration is very different and needs extensive documentation to reduce that friction point.

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

NixOS needs what is IMO the killer feature of Arch: the wiki.

NixOS has a killer feature which obviates a wiki for most such purposes: NixOS options. They document themselves!

You don't need to look up a wiki on how to install and enable i.e. paperless and all the other services it depends on, you simply set services.paperless.enable and NixOS configures everything for you internally.

The option tells you roughly what it does internally and the other options provide pointers for things you might want to tweak about it. The services.paperless.extraConfig option for example tells you how to configure it (pointing to upstream documentation in this case) and even gives an example on what you might want to do.

Another example is how to install Steam. In Arch, the wiki must tell you all the manual steps required to enable multilib, install the steam package, install 32bit dependencies, yada yada.

In NixOS, you simply set programs.steam.enable = true;. Off to your games.
You wanna customise the Steam package to add additional flags, pass env vars or add additional packages your weird Linux-native indie game needs? programs.steam.package tells you how to do that right in the place where you do it.
While you're looking for steam, you might also come across hardware.steam-hardware.enable which you need to set in order to make your Valve Index and Steam Controller work properly.
You wanna start Steam in a gamescope session right from the display-manager? programs.steam.gamescopeSession does it for you. No need to copy paste some snippet that you'll instantly forget about and maybe breaks in a few months. programs.steam.gamescopeSession is maintained upstream by NixOS, so if it breaks, someone will go and fix that and nobody needs to adjust any of their copy-pasta because they'll just update as they always do and it just starts working again.

None of this is perfect yet and the quality of documentation of NixOS options really varies but I think you get the idea here. I already rarely look at the NixOS wiki to configure my system because the system configuration tells me what I need to do already and this will only get better as options get refined.

the promise of being every bit as hackable as Arch

I don't think it makes that promise and I don't think it's true.

NixOS is about doing things "properly"; applying software engineering to software environment management.

Whipping up a quick hack is much more complicated and time intensive on NixOS than doing so on Arch because it's way more abstract. You can't just quickly replace some binary with your own compiled one, you need to use NixOS' systems to wire in the binary and build it with Nix to begin with.

Maintaining a system (even one with terrible hacks) is much simpler in NixOS however.

[-] Flicsmo@rammy.site 12 points 1 year ago

You're underrepresenting the complications of NixOS and overrepresenting the complications of Arch. For example, to install Steam I would run sudo pacman -Syu steam. On a typical Arch setup that's all that's needed.

Another example is how to install Steam. In Arch, the wiki must tell you all the manual steps required to enable multilib, install the steam package, install 32bit dependencies, yada yada.

And that's why the Arch wiki is so great - it has details and links about everything that goes into making something work. If you want to learn more or if something goes wrong it's all right there.

But yes, I think you hit the nail on the head at the end there - hackability is Arch's strength, everything is exposed and flexible to tinkering. It's easy to make almost anything work, and easy to learn how it works. That's very different from NixOS's core philosophy of stability and reproducibility.

There are inherent pros and cons to both approaches - it really comes down to a mix of personal preference and using the right tool for the right job. They're apples and oranges, and the article framing NixOS as a superior successor to Arch is as silly as the reverse would be.

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

For example, to install Steam I would run sudo pacman -Syu steam. On a typical Arch setup that's all that's needed.

That is incorrect to my knowledge. Back when I used Arch, you still needed to enable multilib which I don't think has changed. You need a wiki entry to tell you how to do that.

AFAIK you also need to manually install yourself a Vulkan driver. I've recently helped a person who had opted for AMDVLK here and it broke in one game but was working fine in others.

That sort of thing doesn't really happen with NixOS because enabling desktop support implies the presence of a Vulkan driver and we provide a sane one by default (currently RADV via mesa or nvidia when you enable proprietary drivers).

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this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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