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this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
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Risa
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Well, as someone who's gay, I'd say that the representation from Stamets and Culber didn't feel forced or unnatural. If Stamets were straight and Culber were a woman then nothing would change. If Adira wasn't non-binary then nothing would change. If Grey wasn't trans then nothing would change. Stamets was on screen for like two episodes before you ever find out that he's gay. Culber on for one. Adira doesn't mention that they're non-binary until halfway through Season 3 and the reaction is literally just "Okay" and they move on. Grey only has two throwaway lines mentioning a previous transition. Their characters are all well established without their sexuality or identity having any impact on the show. It would all be the same characters but straight. The show goes out of its way to demonstrate that being gay, trans or non-binary has literally nothing to do with the content of your character.
I am getting slightly tired though of seeing people who aren't part of the community saying that the representation of us 'feels forced'. Our mere existence isn't forced. Moreover, are you really the one who gets to judge this? After people trying to kill us for decades, and then using us for marketing purposes, now y'all wanna judge whether our existence is "forced"?
A gay couple in a series today is as forced as a black woman on the bridge in the 60s. The people who complained about the latter are the same kind of people who complain about the former today and not even notice the latter. It's also the same kind of people who won't notice either in the future and complain about what ever. Star trek handled political topics very well from the beginning by showing it as normal and making it a topic in allegories, sometimes making it explicit like when Kirk and Bones talk about how the "cold war on earth in the 20th century never got hot" or how wrong the Vietnam war "was".
You want your star trek before it was political? You can't be talking about TOS, not even the first pilot. Maybe the intro?
It did bother me a little that Adira was adopted by Stamets and Culber, only because it sort of felt like "let's keep all the LGBT+ characters together" in a way, but I love that there's a nonbinary primary character on Star Trek.
To be fair, that trope is called 'adopted family' and is incredibly popular within the gay community itself, which makes sense when you think about it. It usually comes from a place that one LGBT+ person has been abandoned by everyone in their life so other LGBT+ step in to help because they know what it's been like their whole lives. Overall it's actually a very large part of the LGBT+ community and the primary driving force as to why people say "YOU'RE GROOMING OUR KIDS!" Someone will disown an LGBT+ youth, that youth reaches out to people similar for them for help, those people help, and then the parents get enraged.
While it is a bit of a "Let's keep them together", I genuinely think it was done by the LGBT+ folks themselves and just keeping to representing the community in general. That and Adira does have more in common with Stamets than anyone else on board.
That makes sense. Thanks for that perspective.
But of course. The Adira thing was actually made fun of (a little bit) by myself and a couple friends. We were all making jokes that Stamets and Culber would adopt Adira and Grey just because of how popular it is in the community. It happened to me. I've got a couple older gay guys who effectively adopted me when I came into the community. Happened to my trans friend. Happens a lot. So when Stamets is talking to Aurelio and outright says he has a child... We all were fucking floored. So I can totally see where you're coming from in not liking it. It's almost too on the nose just because of how fast it happened. It does happen quick in reality but woah.
I wonder if Anthony Rapp or Wilson Cruz had any input about it? Because I'm sure they can give a similar perspective to you... although for all I know, half the writers on Discovery are LGBT+ and don't need the input. I am cishet, but my daughter identifies as omnisexual so I really want her to have characters she can relate to when so many decades have gone by without those characters. That's why I appreciate Star Trek always being as progressive as TV will allow and why I appreciate that TV will finally allow those characters.
I'm not sure on if Rapp or Cruz had any input. I'm half inclined to ask Anthony myself next time I randomly talk to him. The staff on Discovery though, yeah. There's a lot of representation behind the scenes. Like a lot. I don't know the numbers but a good chunk of people behind all the new Treks are LGBT+ in some sort of variety. Another reason I love Discovery? One of the writers in Season 1 and 2 (and an exec producer) was Michelle Paradise. That name may or may not be familiar because she, starting with Season 3, became a co-runner of Discovery. She's also a lesbian!
Representation up the wazoo with this show. It was one of the biggest draws for me. Let me just say that growing up without that representation on screen and without people to relate to? It felt strange. Here's a future where everyone is loved and accepted but I'm just invisible. Still not there. Still lonely. When Stamets came on screen with Culber during the toothbrush scene... I actually cried. I knew that both the actors were gay but didn't know that they were playing gay characters. Seeing representation for the first time in Star Trek and knowing that not only are we still there in the future but we matter and can be important? It was an enormous deal.
Trust me when I say that you looking out for your daughter on that front is going to mean the world to her on levels you won't ever be able to fully appreciate. You are an awesome person and an amazing dad.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
The relationship between Stamets and Culber felt like the single island of humanity and goodness in the four seasons I almost got through. And then they fridged Culber, only to then bring him back with mushroom trauma. Not really the woke thing to do. Adira and Gray just seemed kinda pointless from what I remember, despite the somewhat interesting backstory.
What I found forced and entirely unnecessary was Lt. Connolly in the first episode of the second season or how they handled Leeland. To me it's just a tone-deaf, mean-spirited show overall.
Calm down.
You don't need to go into full attack Mode here. Im happy for you, that you felt repretented. I did not feel the way they handled it felt like good representstion. I'd be happy to see more representstion in general, I just wish it would be embedded into a better told story. If you are cool with the way it's done: Good for you.
This is a beautiful example of heteronormativity at work. You can disagree with me on how and if Discovery did a good job of representing LGBTQI+. topic or not without assuming my sexuality or implying thst I called out for the war on gays, thank you very much.
I am calm. If I was in attack mode it would be very different.
Why? You have not yet explained or elaborated that point. You've just went "Nah. Not good." Meanwhile that representation has won literal awards from multiple different international organizations that are specifically devoted to LGBTQIA+ representation.
There is a massive difference between "the story isn't a good one and gay characters shouldn't be brought down by bad writing" and "this is bad representation and feels forced". You did not originally say that it was "embedded into a better told story" originally which is what I'm responding to.
Correct. I assumed you were straight because I have yet to meet anyone from the LGBTQIA+ community who would be so self-sabotaging that they say it's bad representation while being wildly unclear about your stance and opinion. While it's a little on me to make an assumption, you can't exactly blame me when for my entire life I've been forced to justify my simple existence to people who constantly judge me day after day by what they think the standard is. Not only that but generally I think that if someone is going to be giving the opinion on whether or not the representation is good of a particular group, they should openly be saying that they're part of the group. Otherwise it just sounds like you're a complete stranger looking in and judging the representation on behalf of a group that never asked for it.
Gay characters are allowed to exist. The representation was fine and probably the best representation that we've gotten in a while. Moreover, it's the only representation we've gotten on a large scale in Star Trek at any point in history. And once again, it has won literal awards for its representation.
Edit: The amount of you who are willing to downvote me for daring to point out blatant bigotry, while upvoting that same bigotry, is absolutely disgusting. You should be utterly fucking ashamed of yourself.
I feel like often criticism of how representation is done in media is really just veiled criticism that it’s normalized in the show.
It’s like representation should only be blatant and pandering (so it can be called woke by the same people) or so far in the background it’s easy to ignore it or not catch it if you’re not who’s being represented.
I love that it’s just business as usual in these shows and the representation is organic, because that’s real life.
Exactly.
your depression is getting the better of you
I'm fine, thanks for your concern.