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Gaza says Israel's strikes on refugee camp kill more than 195 people
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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Intent is the difference between collateral damage and massacres. Israel is attacking military targets that Hamas hides among Gazan civilians. Hamas attacks civilians for the sake of murdering and kidnapping civilians. It's wild how many here seem to be keen on supporting the genocidal underdogs simply because they are underdogs.
Israel has been occupying Palestine, killing innocent civilians and stealing their lands decades before Hamas was even a thing.
That's certainly the Palestinian perspective. Then, as now, there are consequences to declaring war against one's neighbor and losing, then remaining belligerent for 70 years while refusing to negotiate for a viable peace. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005, proving in hindsight that unilateral withdrawal is a bad idea for them in this conflict, given recent events.
No, that's the perspective of anyone with common sense.
You don't negotiate for peace with some that occupies you and wants to give you a smaller piece of your land.
Did you expect the native Americans to just give away their land?
Do you expect Ukraine to give away their land? If Russia won their war on Ukraine, will the world be like "Heh, they won, Ukraine in Russian now."? The answer is no.
Then current trends will continue and they will likely end up with less and less until they have nothing. Palestine has no viable path to military victory, it takes more than outrage to win wars. One ignores the realpolitik of their situation at their own peril.
They lost their ancestral lands and have since pacified themselves, because war with the US is unwinnable. Today they have freedom of movement, freedom of return, and full US citizenship. Compare this to how Gaza is faring today.
Ukraine still has a viable path to conventional military victory against Russia.
They would eventually do exactly this, but I think Ukraine will win. Borders have changed massively throughout human history and eventually the new ones get recognized, because most countries don't ignore the realpolitik of one's situation like Palestine has.
Israeli settlers already kill Palestinians and steal their land, there's no peace with Israel.
It seems like you suggest people should not fight for their freedom and land and should just give up. That's a very cowardly point of view.
And yeah obviously Ukraine can still win, because the entire world is helping them, the world is also helps Israel and turns a blind on the massacres happening in Palestine.
Sounds like Hamas, look what that way of thinking is getting them.
As a general rule, no. When said people don't have a viable path to victory through combat, yes.
The reason they don't have freedom? All the fighting.
The reason they are have lost and continue to lose land? All the fighting.
It's almost like Ukraine and Palestine are wildly different and don't behave in similar ways or have similar motivations. Ukraine, like Israel, is fighting for its safety from a hostile enemy that is unwilling to make viable compromises. If they were slaughtering and kidnapping civilians and parading them around Kiev, and had been launching guerilla attacks on, say, Poland, for the last century we might not be supporting them.
The reason occupied people don't have freedom is because they're fighting for it?
Don't say more you are from Portland. We can meet eachother and mod some discord while eating pizza