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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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integrating the azov brigade into the national guard sounds like a bunch of Nazis are in the government to me.
Yeah, it's a problem. A threatened country integrated a fascist militia into its army. Yes, and that's bad.
But the country as a whole does not like Nazis at all, and doesn't vote for them.
"In the 2019 Ukrainian elections, the far-right nationalist electoral alliance, including Svoboda, National Corps, Right Sector, Azov Battalion, OUN, and Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists, under-performed expectations. In the presidential election, its candidate Ruslan Koshulynskyi received 1.6% of the vote, and in the parliamentary election, it was reduced to a single seat and saw its national vote fall to 2.15%, half of its result from 2014 and one-quarter of its result from 2012."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine
The country has a Jewish president and a Muslim cabinet minister. Sound like a Nazi country to you?
Agreed. Remember the golden rule of warfare: so long as the guy beside you is shooting in the right direction, you can sort your differences out later.
identity politics are boring. there were Jewish collaborators in the third Reich.
In most cases, Jews who chose to collaborate with Nazis did so to guarantee their personal survival, which distinguished them from most other ethnic groups who collaborated with Nazi Germany. It's not exactly a fair comparison.
but you see that identity is not a preventative for fascism, right? I don't think the president of Ukraine is any more fascist than Biden or Obama. but I also take a pretty dim view of them.
I see your point and it stands. Certainly anyone can lead a country down the wrong path and we don't know their true motives.
My point was mainly that the power structure is seemingly reversed, so the incentives don't make as much sense.
While voting is a necessary but insufficient way to combat fascism, 96% of voting Ukrainians choosing to not support fascism is a good indicator that fascism is NOT on the agenda in Ukraine. A fascist coup by that 2% supporting fascism would be opposed by the vast majority of Ukraine.
You completely ignore that fact with your hardon for attacking the identity of persons chosen by the Ukrainians.
Edit to explain: I made no argument on what Zelinsky as a Jew or the Muslim cabinet member would be politically, which would be identity politics. This statement of fact (Zelinsky is Jewish) was relevant to the political preferences of the Ukrainian people. Fascists don't choose Jews and Muslims to represent them.
Zelinsky is a pretty terrible neoliberal, and I'm not actually a fan. But I am a fan a national self determination. So was Lenin.
this is a spurious accusation and you should apologize
my issue isn't with an election. it's with the legitimizing of armed Nazis in the military.
Where's Azov now, and where's Rusich?
you can't believe anything I've said is defending any country or group of Nazis.
I don't pick my favorite nazis here too lol. I point out one had 9 years of being dismantled and intermixed with regular corps, meaning it's non-existent by now, and one is still intact and active as it's own entity.
i don't believe this is true for a second. integrating was wrong: some of those Nazis surely stayed in leadership, shaping an even larger recruitment base. that shit doesn't just disappear. it must be rooted out.
You can see a context for that and think if you could do it better.
I know what to do about Nazis.
You mean sitting around and arguing?
no
The irony of the whole Azov thing is a majority of their members are ex Russians who moved to East Ukraine because Russia wasn't being Nazi enough for them.
I'm not justifying keeping Nazis around.