219
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
219 points (83.3% liked)
politics
18601 readers
3888 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Ok, you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about. We're done here.
If that’s true then explain why you think so.
Liberal = neoliberalism. Democrats are neolibs, self identified liberals and most "progressives" are neolibs that don't understand what neoliberalism is. Political conversations at the very least need to come from a mutual understanding of what words mean, and liberal is a pretty important one in the context of this conversation.
Also, philanthropy is a scam. The only thing Tyler Perry is helping is his PR, like every other rich person that "uplifts their community". Its a farce to trick people like you into being more content with the status quo. I will agree that singling out Tyler Perry here is an odd move because he isn't doing anything unique, but that's about it
You’re trying to claim that the article is using the definition of neoliberalism when referring to liberals in American politics? That’s observably false. Just look at the context.
The article tries to spin this as a “gotcha” because those who American Conservatives call “liberals” in American politics campaign against trickle down economics.
Do neoliberals campaign against trickle down economics? Nope.
Reaganomics pushed trickle down economics in the 80s and was neoliberal to the core.
American Conservative’s use of “Liberal” ≠ neoliberalism
_ If you're so insistent that liberal has a special American™ definition, then what is it? _
I’m not insistent on anything. Just pointing out what you acknowledge in your first paragraph, that Liberal in American politics doesn’t fit your definition.
_ How is it different from neoliberalism?_
Well, neoliberalism promotes income inequality and those that American Conservatives call Liberals campaign against income inequality.
_ Is it useful in the broader conversation?_
Is what useful? In what broader conversation?
_ Is there an already existing word that would fit the American version of liberal?_
Probably.
_ If there is, shouldn't that word be used instead to avoid miscommunication_
In a perfect world, yes. But American Conservatives misuse titles like “liberals”, “communist” and “socialists” to push their agenda. It happens so much that the meanings of these words have changed in American politics. They do it so they can paint liberals as neoliberals and say ‘hey look! Democrats support trickle down economics too! Both sides are the same!’
Or to pretend like helping Americans in need is socialism and will result in the same outcome as socialist nations that have failed, etc.
So to ignore what they are trying to do and stick to the original definitions of these words will just reinforce their base’s views of those ideologies.
It’s easier to reach their base by saying ‘If it’s socialism to make sure that American’s have affordable healthcare then I guess I’m a socialist’. Thus changing what those ideologies are in the eyes of American conservatives.
Yes, they do. Obama, both Clintons, and to a lesser extent Biden are all at least predominantly driven by neoliberal ideology.
The caricature of neoliberalism as an unchanging belief brought forth immaculately by Regan and Thatcher is what they don't align with.
Real neoliberalism, in actual practice, prefers market solutions with the government working to address externalities in the system.
It's basically what broad-spectrum liberals and progressives across the board want, which is why socialists demonize it so much.
I commented earlier, having only skimmed the article. What I said was incorrect so I deleted the comment. The article is literally about the hypocrisy of Democrats in regards to trickle down economics. They say they're against neoliberalism, yet give wealthy individuals sweetheart deals, allow then to exploit tax loopholes and divert public funds into 0rivaye enterprises. These are all features of trickle down economics which are present in Tyler Perry's actions in Atlanta, a Democrat run city.
The journalist's use of liberal is correct and they're highlighting examples of neoliberal ideology in the Democrat party. Despite the rhetoric of the Democrat party, their actions smack of neoliberalism. Outside of the handful of social democrats present in the Democrat party, who is campaigning against trickle down economics? Where have they been successful/made an earnest attempt?
American conservatives are fascists. Words mean nothing to them and it's a very common tactic to obfuscate the definitions of common terms to serve their own purposes. Why should anyone use their definitions or consider their perspective? They constantly change both of those to fit their needs in the moment.
Again, the article isn't using the conservative "definition" of liberal, it's using the actual definition of liberal. If anything you seem to be applying the conservative definition of liberal to the article and the obvious conflict of that is leading you to confusion
You’re trying to pretend that the deals city officials make to bring in business that leads to more jobs and revenue is the same as tax cuts for the rich that conservatives campaign for.
Those two things aren’t the same and this is an obvious attempt to portray it that way to claim both sides are the same.
Seeing as the most wealthy people in this country have the majority of their wealth tied up in their businesses, and their businesses have an obligation to enrich their shareholders, of which they are usually majority stakeholders; getting tax cuts not only on their business, but on their personal wealth as well, yeah they're the same. They're siphoning money out of their business to line their pockets, all while getting tax breaks and subsidies from the government.
They get tax cuts, they provide low paying, low quality jobs, funnel as much of the revenue to the top as they can (while doing everything they can to avoid paying taxes in the process) all while driving out local businesses, extracting wealth from these communities in exchange for "jobs" (as few as possible at that). It may not be called trickle down economics, but the thought process and material effects of it on individuals and communities are identical.
Big corps don't need tax cuts, they don't need subsidies, they don't provide good wages, they're a parasite. Democrats giving deals to big businesses is very much the same as tax cuts to billionaires, because it is quite literally tax cuts to billionaires. They are the same. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the only thing the Democratic party gives a shit about is staying in power.
All of their "left-leaning" pandering is insincere propaganda meant to keep you voting blue because "were gonna do something about the fascists this time, pinky promise!" Pull your head out of your ass, read a book or two, and get active. Joe isn't going to save you, the system is incapable of saving you, no one in the government with any power to change your material conditions is going to. Our government is by the wealthy, for the wealthy. And you're not wealthy.