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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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Linux Gaming
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Why so hostile? Responses like yours are not going to make people come back to Linux anytime soon.
I have to agree with @semperverus - I find this post as dumb as going to a windows forum as posting about having moved to linux.
That's not "dumb" tho, that's how you don't end up with an echochamber. Windows communities should discuss the shortcomings of windows, but also linux communities should accept and/or help resolve issues with linux. If the point of this community is to just praise linux and say nothing bad about it then what's even the point of it, it's just going to give a false impression to anyone thinking of switching over.
This isn't an issue we, or anyone in the Linux community can resolve, and OP doesn't even ask for help with their issue. They just wanted to inform us that "Linux bad, Windows better".
OP even said that Linux is all good if you play single-player games.
It is you who chose to interpret the post as "Linux bad, Windows better".
Do you think OP would have tried Linux in the first place if they genuinely thought that?
"Linux may be fine if you only do X, but..." is one of the most used bait post templates.
It is true, i mean if you are into popular online first person shooters on twitch linux is not the best choice. And it doesn't help when you come back say, those games are not worth playing.
But this is not a problem with Linux, really. There are many multiplayer and using some king of anti-cheat system games that work perfectly fine. The developer of this one simply didn't care (or didn't want for whatever reason) for the game to run on Linux in any form, so it's not working. Sometimes you get lucky and Wine can run a game like this but this is not the real solution. If developer wants it to run on Mac, they create a Mac build, they want it to run on older Windows, they probably have to prepare separate build for older Windows, they want it to run on consoles, they create builds for the consoles they want it to run. Linux/Proton/Wine build seems to be missing
There is technically no such thing as a "Proton/Wine build".
I'm sure Steam knows what client it uses. Which means there could be. And having a build that works with a defined version of Wine or Proton would be such a build
That would be a stupid approach though, Proton gets improvements and bug fixes all the time. They'd be missing out if they locked their game to one particular version. As long as they did the bare minimum & aren't actively hampering support on purpose like Epic Games does, then the game will work and any bugs will be patched by Valve and the community.
Yes, it would be stupid approach. But that is the minimal viable approach to having a "Wine/Proton build"
From your perspective it is not a Linux problem. From the perspective of the user who sees all those "Linux is as good for gaming as windows nowadays!" posts and expects his OS to just work, it is a Linux issue that would be resolved by not using Linux.
Besides, I know nobody gives a shit what we write here in the fediverse but generally speaking you get the change to happen by making enough noise about it. If nobody talks that the dev x doesn't support the linux build, whether its because of EAC or something else, then nothing will ever change about it so stifling these discussions is not good for anyone.
OP should be complaining to the game dev then, not trolling the Linux community about it.
If I buy a thing and it has a different plug, the problem is not my outlets, but producer/seller
Oh, I am definitely not against shaming a developer that does that. We (Linux gaming community) have been complaining about this long before Valve even had a native Linux client. But as long as developers don't pay attention if the game will run on Linux (native or Wine), there isn't really much Linux community could do about
Which is exactly what is happening on Windows-related posts all over Lemmy.
Then please downvote them. Fanboyism is stupid regardless of what you're shilling for.
I only post if I think it's directly relevant and constructive. Like noting Steam Deck compat for a game, or if someone asks about Linux on something I happen to be browsing. Then again, Linux isn't new or fresh to me, it's just the thing I've been using for 15 or so years, so I suppose I'm less excited about it than someone who just found it in the past year or something.
In 2023 we still have folks telling linux uses we have to kowtow to non-linux users?
Someone doesn't want to run linux, fine. Popping into a Linux community to stick your tongue out and letting folks know you are going back to Windows? That's no better than a troll. Like those folks who used to make a big post to tell you they were leaving reddit or other forum because someone made them angry. (And I don't mean the Spez debacle)
ALL the shit that's awful about MS and Windows is less awful to OP than running Linux. OK. Well, that's free will.
Some things in life don't need to be announced. No one is shaking their head in sad defeat right now because OP went back to Windows.
You can check on the previous posts i made in this community. It always sucks when a friend wants to play a game with incompatible anticheat and you tell him about linux. This created a bad impression about linux for him. If you want linux gaming to grow anticheat compatibility should be a top priority. Windows is not all that bad if you remove/modify the annoying parts of windows and everything just works.
The person it needs to be a priority for is the developer, not anyone you are addressing here. If it makes Linux look bad and not the developer look bad, that's the fault of whoever is choosing not to understand the root of the problem.
But the people like my friend who is the majority here doesn't care if it is the dev or linux. They know they cant get a seamless experience if you switch from windows, which he will also preach to his friends. Most people want their stuff to work with minimal effort. People like me and you who care beyond that is a minority.
I get that, but the proper response is definitely NOT "yeah it's Linux's fault" just because OP doesn't look further than that. (Edit: forgot you were OP when I first wrote this. Oops.)
I'm beyond caring if someone takes a superficial look and goes back. Years ago I felt compelled to try saying "hey you didn't stick with it long enough, let me try to convince you that you'll eventually see all the other ways its better" now I'm (apparently) the asshole who says, "If you want to use Linux, great, let me know if you need any help. If you want to go back to Windows, the door's over there."
The argument "If you want Linux to succeed" no longer holds any sway for me. Linux has succeeded. It doesn't need every last person who doesn't currently use it to start using it in order to continue succeeding. 10 years ago we'd never have believed Linux gaming would be where it is today. 15 years ago it was madness to think desktop Linux usage would be as commonly discussed and known as it is today. 16 (edit: 16, not 18) years ago I crossed the threshold where I no longer needed Windows, and a shitload of people have done the same since then. (And a pretty big chunk of people did it before me - when it was MUCH harder to do)
No one who values privacy or actual ownership of their OS and hardware, and doesn't buy that they have to share control of it with Microsoft (or any entity), is going to stay with Windows for the long-haul, and MS makes that argument stronger and stronger every single year, while desktop Linux continues being refined and getting better and better. Not everyone shares those values, and that's fine. Plenty do, and we live in a modern era that brings such issues to the forefront over and over again.
So when a random person says "this single game is what made me go back to Windows" I wish them all the best, but when members of the Linux community (or worse, folks who are not) tell me I should be kissing their ass, that pisses me off. (Not saying you are doing so - edit - you kinda are actually)
This post is opening up a discussion on game compatibility on Linux. Switching back to Windows is just one point OP made, which you decided to focus on.
If you decide to view this as a troll, you should also condone the people who invade Windows-related Lemmy posts just to advocate for Linux.
If someone makes a top level post about it, yes I would, for the same reasons.
If it's a comment that flows naturally from conversation, I don't see the problem. (in either case)
But I think you meant condemn, not condone.
It's literally the only point they made. The rest is their justification for that point.
You're right, I used the wrong word.
As a community we will achieve nothing if we dismiss these posts as "op said windows is better". We should be looking into why they feel how they feel.
Suboptimal game compatibility on Linux is a point that should not be discounted. We know that Linux is mostly there already, but there's still some amount to go.
I don't feel the need to sell Linux to someone who isn't interested or who has already decided they are going back to Windows.
OP didn't ask for help. OP said "This one game doesn't work for me, gaming on Linux is a pain in the ass, I'm going back to Windows." (paraphrasing)
You are not going to convince me coddling those kinds of posts is beneficial to the community.
I'd use BSD or even (shudder) MacOS before I used Windows - and while not everyone needs to feel that way, I reject on its face the idea that the primary goal of the Linux community is to endlessly try to convince people who have decided to go back to Windows not to go back to windows.
I use Linux because I like Linux. I like to interact with people who like Linux. I love to help people who want to learn to like Linux.
If someone looks at the totality of awfulness that is Windows and MS (and i say that as someone who supports Windows on the sever and the desktop) and decides it's worth it to go back because they want to play a specific game, that's fine, but I feel no obligation to beg and cajole them to come back, and I bristle at the implication that I, or the community at large, should.
I'm also not going to pretend that a post saying they are doing so is in any way a contribution to the linux community. It's not. At worst it's a troll and thumb of the nose as they head out the door, and at best it's unhelpful, and points the finger at Linux when that's not where the finger belongs.
Did no one know this game didn't work until OP posted about it? Did OP contact the DEV to let them know they should do things differently? Has our understanding of the state of gaming on Linux been enhanced in any way? No, probably not, and no.
I still believe OP has given us something to discuss here by pointing out the current state of game compatibility.
If you don't, then I suppose there's nothing for you to see here.
Feel free to make another post to discuss it then. Something like, "Games that don't work on Linux because of EAC - links to voice your support for Linux compatibility included." That's constructive and can get into how to best ask for support (e.g. I want to play on my Steam Deck, but this needs Linux EAC support enabled).
But saying "I'm bailing on Windows because of game X" isn't helpful, it's just complaining. Instead of that, focus that frustration onto something constructive that might actually solve the problem.