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this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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I doubt I'm going to change your mind at all, but I just want to let you know your information about the rail strike is incorrect. Biden did help secure sick pay for those workers, here's part of the statement from the IBEW:
"We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers."
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
The student loan aid was also legally blocked by Congress, and the military budgets were also passed by Congress. There's no magic wand to a lot of the problems you seem to have with Biden, unfortunately. He isn't the sole authority in the US govt.
This is the unfortunate danger of populism generally. Bernie promised big things with no clear nor realistic path to delivering them, and people who are political rookies think he would have been solely capable of achieving those things through fervent advocacy or belief alone.
Sweeping populist rhetoric slams into actual reality with similar velocity whether it's Trump's or Sanders' when actually put into office. Very similarly to how Trump being elected in 2016 didn't magically erect a giant border wall, Sanders being elected would not have resulted in us getting single payer healthcare, changed every long-term military alliance we had with others, eliminated the military industrial complex, nor canceled all student loans.
These things are all from a position of "well, the politician just didn't believe enough!" and no matter how fervent the belief, it takes a long time to affect change in the American system. Even illegally and forcefully turning America completely fascist is a multi-term project, which is why we don't have grand fuhrer trump this moment.
Because those people don't have a basic understanding of how the 3 branches of government actually work.
If I'm elected to congress I'll work towards passing a law mandating all licensed broadcasters run 24 hour marathons of School House Rock and other "USA civics edutainment for children" shows on a set date every year.
That doesn't justify anyone voting for Biden over Bernie or the other options in the 2020 primaries.
I voted Bernie in the primary, and then (as reasonable adult) voted Biden in the general.
Clinton was president 30 years ago and Biden is to the right of Clinton. Three decades of reasonable adulting has pushed us towards fascism.
Anyway, what would you say to the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries? Are you willing to call them out for being selfish pieces of shit?
Umm...got any sources for these claims?
And also what's the answer? To waste your vote on someone who has no chance in a first past the pole system? To whine on the Internet?
Ah you answered my last question: the answer is for everyone to get bigly angry on the Internet at people who didn't want Bernie. That'll solve it. 🤷
There were lots of other people running.
Give me one good reason why someone would vote for Biden over everybody else in the 2020 primaries.
Lots of people did vote for someone else in the 2020 primaries. This good variety of candidates that you claim existed only existed in the early rounds. Once Super Tuesday arrived, it was practically Bernie and Biden (everyone else was so far behind in vote percentages that they might as well not even been on the ballots). After Super Tuesday, the field narrowed even further to be exactly Bernie and Biden in the last remaining contests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
So, why would someone vote for Biden over Bernie in these contests you're asking? It's simple; they liked Biden more than Bernie.
Alright. Why did they like Biden more than Bernie?
There's any number of reasons for that. I didn't like Biden at all but off of the top of my head:
I could go on further, but you should understand the themes here.
As an aside, despite not being overwhelmingly delighted with Biden's presidency, I am happy to not have the daily pants shitting, diaper-baby in the whitehouse headlines that we had during Trump's four years...and the competency with which Biden largely handled one of the only federal programs I cared about in 2020 (i.e. the distribution of COVID vaccinations) was refreshing after 4 years of complete and utter idiocy in the executive branch.
Yes. The theme is "I don't like progressive or leftist candidates." They voted for Biden to fuck over our efforts. They are not our allies. They are fighting us out in the open.
To just see every voter in the 2020 primary as being in the "anti-progressive" camp is to eliminate their possibility for them to change their mind.
We shouldn't throw them under the bus, but rather seek to persuade them to our side.
If you look at the first two (or somewhat all three) points I raised about why someone might vote Biden over Bernie they are basically based upon perception. Perceptions are moveable. People who voted for Biden in the 2020 primary aren't a lost cause. In many cases, they were persuaded by propaganda that they thought wasn't propaganda because it was coming from purportedly liberal sources (I think of MSNBC in particular).
I never said that. I said people voted for Biden specifically to fuck over progressives and leftists. Your own reasons why someone would choose Biden over every other candidate demonstrated this perfectly. You're right, not every voter in the 2020 primaries was a selfish piece of shit. But every person who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries was absolutely a selfish piece of shit.
They have no incentive to move when their candidate wins the primary and the general elections.
I don't think that's 100% correct. Maybe some of the political insiders directly around Biden see Biden as "their guy"...many voters (myself included) do not see politicians as much of anything except a vehicle for the policies they want in government.
In my opinion, the incentive to move their views winds up being...reality unfolding before their eyes. You see the people in office now and what they're capable of, and you see what policy positions are and aren't working...and your perceptions about what is and isn't possible with certain policies, or certain politicians or even certain political parties...changes.
Hell, dude, the great progressive hope FDR wasn't exactly a leftist until he realized what a shitty shit burger of a situation the country was in when he took office. People and even politicians change.
Clinton's presidency was 30 years ago. Biden is to the right of Clinton. We've moved precisely nowhere.
Yes. In the form of losing general elections.
Biden isn't to the right of Clinton no matter how much you want to keep insisting that's true.
But regardless of the Democrats the other party exists. Reagan was popular amongst basically everyone that voted, Democrats lost three general elections in a row which led to the advent of third way Democrats like Clinton in the first place. Biden losing will not lead to a more progressive candidate winning next election cycle. But it's very possible that it may lead us further toward fascism.
Lol prove it.
Removed, rule 3, keep it civil.
Awww, you're not up for the mental gymnastics necessary to continue gaslighting people into thinking Biden is anything but a right of center procorporate piece of shit? Boohoo.
Nah you're just a dumb troll and I've run out of troll pellets.