806
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
806 points (99.8% liked)
politics
19244 readers
2700 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Taxation IS theft. So what? We permit the government to steal from those fucknuts for the services they use. If they don't like it, they can hire a bigger army than us.
It definitely isn't theft. It's the cost of living in the society that you want to live in. No one is forcing you to live in an area that has a tax price attached. You're free to move to a place with no taxes, but you don't want to live in those places. Being forced to pay with no other options is theft, choosing to live in an area with taxes providing services you want is not.
when was the last time you paid your taxes?... or were they auto-deducted from your paycheck before you even had a chance to count it?
"you're free to move to a place...." hahaha! haaahahaha! WHAT? you are not a serious person.
Have you not seen a paystub? It would not surprise me if you haven't, but they clearly show what taxes are being deducted. We're already in a corporat hell hole. You really want ticket master in charge of roadways? There goes your right to traveling freely.
Yeah taxes suck, but take off your rose tinted glasses and truly look at what that free market would become. Think about how selfish you'd want to be in making your money and multiply that by, well everyone in the US. Whole lot of middle men that need to make money. I'd rather keep the personal profit out of it.
Please name a modern nation that has operated effectively without taxation.
Or an ancient one, for that matter
For all I know, there was some fuckoff group of cities in some fuckoff part of the world that somehow figured out how to live tax-free in 5000 BC before their civilization collapsed suddenly, so I didn't want to push my luck.
Or a medium aged one.
Last July. My property taxes are crazy high, because I live in an area with good schools and nice parks and amenities (eta such as a boat launch, public rock climbing along cliffs, a nice library, and near monthly open-air festivals in summer).
I no longer have a child in school and I haven’t used the parks in years, but guess what? I’m happy to contribute so other kids and my community can use those services because I’m not a narcissistic asshole.
It’s literally not. It’s the dues you pay to live in a society that then gives you the services you need to live.
You’re not obligated to pay taxes any more than you’re obligated to live in a society. You’re perfectly free to go live off the grid somewhere, free of those restrictions and also free from roads, fire services, clean water, sewage, cell service, hospitals, schools, and the rest. You’re free to enjoy your libertarian utopia until the bears decide otherwise.
That's not actually true. As a practical matter you can easily dodge your obligation by getting a job under the table that pays on cash, but the legal obligation remains. If you go without income and property entirely you'll have the same problems any homeless person does.
Also false. You can't just legally flee the country, and there's nowhere inside the country you can do things like own a home without paying taxes on it.
I'm not defending the tax-free attitude of liberterians here, but I am most certainly emphasizing that your claims are false.
That’s why I mentioned boat, not home, ownership. Buy one outright, work for cash and pay cash. Sure, you’ll be living on the fringes of society, but if you’re truly libertarian, that shouldn’t matter – in fact, it’s a bonus.
There is no unclaimed territory where you could honestly claim to not need to pay taxes. Yes you could go off grid and hide, but you are still going to owe those taxes and it will be taken when they find you.
But who cares if they call it theft? I just agree. Fine it's theft. The government is allowed to steal from you because society approves of it.
Sure there is. Perhaps not in the US, but if you’re dedicated to your convictions, the world is your oyster, and why would you want to stay in the US anyhow? In fact, you can buy a small boat and just move along coastlines, essentially invisible to everyone not charging you slip fees. (e: and you can often pay those with cash, no paper trail.)
Regardless, it’s still not theft if you use the services provided.
I think I'm confused. I was under the impression that the US government required taxes on any money earned anywhere on the planet. I'm pretty sure you required to pay taxes on whatever money you earn working part-time from your boat or whatever. Is that not the case?
You can work for cash and pay cash. If you really think taxation is theft, why would you work for someone who’s a slave to The Man and insisting on payroll taxes?
There are plenty of libertarian employers who also think taxation is theft and would rather not report your earnings. Hell, there are plenty of employers in the US who don’t report earnings because they mostly use undocumented workers.
e: it’s called ‘under the table’
I think you miss my point. I don't think it's theft. I grant libertarians that point then say "so what". There's never an answer.
Oh, in that case, yeah. I’d also love to know that. Sorry, I was having two conversations in this thread and may have mixed up the overall point.
If you ever get an answer, please let me know.