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this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2024
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There are certainly purposes for which one wants as much of the raw sensor readings as possible. Other than science, evidence for legal proceedings is the only thing that comes to mind, though.
I'm more disturbed by the naive views so many people have of photographic evidence. Can you think of any historical photograph that proves anything?
Really famous in the US: The marines raising the flag over Iwo Jima. It was staged for the cameras, of course. What does it prove?
A more momentous occasion is illustrated by a photograph of Red Army soldiers raising the soviet flag over the Reichstag. The rubble of Berlin in the background gives it more evidentiary value, but it is manipulated. It was not only staged but actually doctored. Smoke was added in the background and an extra watch on a soldier's arm (evidence of robbery) removed.
Closer to now: As you are aware, anti-American operatives are trying to destroy the constitutional order of the republic. After the last election, they claimed to have video evidence of fraud during ballot counting. On one short snippet of video, one sees a woman talking to some people and then, after they leave, pull a box out from under a table. It's quite inconspicuous, but these bad actors invented a story around this video snippet, in which a "suitcase" full of fraudulent ballots is taken out of hiding after observers leave.
As psychologists know, people do not think in strictly rational terms. We do not take in facts and draw logical conclusion. Professional manipulators, such as advertisers, know that we tend to think in "narratives". If a story is compelling, we like to twist neutral snippets of fact into evidence. We see what we believe.
Any photos from war zones.
Tienanmen Square images.
Moon landing.
To name a few that are IMO.
I gave 2 photos from war zones as examples. What do they prove and how?
The one in Berlin illustrates the inevitable triumph of Communism over capitalist fascism. Obviously.
The fact the scene was reenacted for the photo does not change all that much. There was a time when most people thought that photos never lie, but that hasn't been for a long time.
How do you know that they were reenacted? There are AIs that can produce deepfake texts.
The situations that drive me nuts are the conspiracy idiots who zoom in super hard on some heavily compressed image they pulled off of the web. They then proceed to claim that compression artifacts, optical flares, noise, etc are evidence of whatever crap they are pushing.
Taking things out of context is another issue. It has become painfully common online. I would see it all the time when pushing the "all police are bad!" narrative. They will deliberately edit out the violence that triggered the arrest then make it look like the arrest was unwarranted and overly physical. People will do this with dashcam videos and show road rage but edit out the part where they triggered it with their own aggression.
Ok the one hand, yeah. Actions have consequences. On the other hand, no amount of aggressive driving "deserves" to be responded to in the way some do, and no amount of someone doing something dangerous or illegal justifies police using unnecessary force (or else we wouldn't call it that). Once they've been subdued, it should be done.
The Moon landings? Hello?
Seriously? At least clarify that you mean film and not photographs. The effects of lower gravity and not atmosphere take at least some effort to get right. Photos can be staged anywhere.
Have you ever looked at the arguments of moon hoaxers? A lot of them would be good questions, if they were questions. Why can't you see the stars? Why are there multiple shadows if the sun is supposed to be the only light source? The boot prints are so perfect, as prints only are in wet sand. How can the flag wave without an atmosphere?
You can easily find answers (and more questions). How do you "prove" these answers? How do you go from that to actually turning photos, and even film, into proof positive of the moon landing?
Oh my god, this IS just a launchpad for lame conspiracybros 🤦🤦🤦
No, the Moon landings were real and the images/clips you see of it online are real too. If it was faked, the USSR would have screamed to the high heavens about it. Just because you personally haven't experienced something does not mean it can't actually happen.
Grow the fuck up and accept reality doesn't conform to your wishful thinking.
Oh, and the Earth is round, too, and NASA livestreams and photos of the very clearly round Earth are valid too.
Just because the majority of people believe something without thinking about it doesn't mean it isn't true or they're not critical thinkers. People know what's worthwhile to question and what's not, and that's a vital aspect of critical thinking you did not consider because you don't understand or care about what it is, it's just an emotional cudgel for you to accuse regular people of bullshit to brainwash and abuse them.
Get off of my feed. Go outside.
Inb4 "Well that's not his point" -- yes it is; he's just trying to pretend to be reasonable to get his foot in the door. Salesmen do this shit all the time; it's a common tactic and it's why we know not to listen to people like him.
Maybe it's just this particular instance, but lately my Lemmy feed has been full of comments doing exactly this. To the point where it's ruining my experience. Which seems to be the goal.
Well, that's one straightforward, though rather disturbing, demonstration of what I was talking about. You perceived some snippets of fact and constructed a story around it.
There's no rational way you can deduce any parts of that story from my posts here. There is nothing that suggests any hidden motives on my part. Occam's razor would say that you should simply accept my stated motive, as it is a sufficient explanation.
A more linear rational view would find problems with your story. You brought up the moon landing and I responded. This contradicts the idea that I have any particular interest in moon hoax ideas.
A taxonomy of fallacies might identify this as an ad hominem attack or character assassination. You made up lies about me, instead of replying to my arguments. I note that you do not use photos or film to argue for the reality of the moon landings, but refer to the reaction of the Soviet Union. That is something worth thinking about some more. While it is still a narrative, we do glimpse a rational argument.
So, thanks for the example. The way you just conjure a paranoid fantasy tale, instead of engaging rationally, is a very topical demonstration of conspiracy thinking.
Just stop. Stop trying to repackage stupid, boring conspiracy bullshit by couching it in faux-philosophy and five dollar words.
Nobody with more than an 8th grade education is falling for the "This sounds smart and I see big words, therefore the person who wrote it must be smarter than me and know what they're talking about" bit.
Can I ask why you feel the need to insult me?
I didn't insult you
Ok, if you feel that way. Can you express why you felt that the content of your replies was reasonable?
Really didn't take long for this site (maybe just this instance?) to turn into another reddit. A cesspool of astroturfing and proud ignorance. Either a complete inability to think critically, or just brain rot, in this case.
It seems like there are just certain people who are dead set on ruining any space on the internet that still exists for people without brain rot. Like they know they're lowering the overall quality of discussion, and instead of doing better, they lean into it. If they can't enjoy themselves, then nobody can.
Just one more extension of their childish, petulant demeanor. It's exactly why over 70 million people voted for a traitorous, demented man child; they see themselves in him.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
On one short snippet of video, one sees a woman talking to some people and then, after they leave, pull a box out from under a table.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.