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submitted 5 months ago by illi@lemm.ee to c/paganism@lemmy.ml

I'd br interested in what you'd consider a good book (or other sources) on various pagan beliefs and traditions that you would recommend.

I'm personally interested in European pagan traditions - be it Norse, Celtic, Germanic, Slavic (bonus points for Slavic!) - but would love to leave the topic open to others as well, just to make it interesting for people with different intrests.

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[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Tellstones: Runic Divination in the Welsh Tradition by Adam Byrn Tritt One of the only books on the subject and widely regarded as the best.

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago
[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Yep, similar but very different to Nordic runestones.

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You mean some kind of Anglo Saxon runes?

Wales was mostly Welsh-speaking (not anglicised) until well after runes fell out of use in the 12th century.

Just the words "Welsh" and "runes" don't go together for me at all. When were there Welsh runes???

[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

When were there Welsh runes???

Well... now, for example. And dating back to the Celts before Rome invaded.

I'm sure there's a book somewhere with the answers.

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm a Celtic linguist and I've never heard of Celtic runes.

[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

They're basic shapes painted on rocks, dude. Not sure what you want me to tell you. I didn't write the book, and you didn't read it so idk what either of us are supposed to get from this conversation.

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago

One of the only books on the subject

I have a guess about why 🤣

[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

The publisher contacted the author and asked him repeatedly to write a book on the subject. Your armchair assumptions and guesses are worth very little. OP asked for suggestions and I made one. It's called being constructive. 🙄

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Name one archæological finding of any runes in any part of Wales.

The writer's website paints him as a New Age yank.

[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

First of all, you're talking about a man who is single handedly (and at a great danger to himself) championing the cause of distributing banned books in a christofascist state. https://foundation451.org/

Second of all, what are you even doing in this community?? If he sounds like a new age yank you sound like a contrarian asshat 🤷🏻

And third, not that you've displayed any sort of openness to information that even remotely contradicts your already very complete worldview, but I've transcribed by hand some excerpts from the book for you:

"Tellstones are used in the Devonshire area of southwest Great Britain. Devonshire (which today is simply called Devon; shire is the old English word for "county") is bordered on the south by the English Channel, on the west by Cornwall, on the north by the Bristol Channel, and on the east by the rest of England. Until the tenth century, maps called this area West Wales, and until the eighth century it was populated entirely by the Welsh. First the Saxons invaded, then the Normans two centuries later. The area is now part of England, but it retains its Welsh culture if not in name, certainly in its traditions and folkways."

"I learned of Tellstones from Rhiannon Ryall's book West Country Wicca: A Journal of the Old Religion. But I only learned the basic form from the book; everything else had to be gathered from people who knew of Tellstones being used or witnessed their use, or from the few I found who actually used them."

"So I did some investigation, and started phoning hotels, restaurants,pubs, and other public places in Wales, asking if anyone had heard of Tellstones. Now mind you, this was pre-Internet. Even though today we can do Google searches (though you'll still find blessed little about Tellstones there), this was before there was a Google, when the 2400-baud modem was the epitome of geek- tech. So I had to do all the leg work Over International Long Distance. Frequently whoever answered the phone would run and grab the oldest person they knew, and sometimes even they would have to refer me to someone else. So even among the elders, the tradition is dying out. This is one reason I felt the need to publish this book and keep Tellstones alive. The meaning of the stones have stayed relatively stable, and the symbols themselves have remained unchanged for as long as anyone could remember the old people recalled their grandparents or great-grandparents using the same stones, the same system."

...

"Every elder, every expert I consulted, listed the same set of symbols and described their appearance the same way. There was never any variant, which speaks to both their widespread use and their antiquity."

[-] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

That's too broad so I'll pretend you asked "What are some sources to learn about authentic Slavic paganism?"

As with all things paganism, beware of claptrap; there's always someone talking shite with no citations. Watch for American or English people with no qualifications in history, linguistics, or archæology, and no peer-reviewed publications who overuse the words "spiritual" and "nature".

Everything always comes from primary sources, though primary sources are usually inaccessible to most people. In the Slavic case, there's quite a bit of archæological evidence (idols like the Zbruch Idol), and texts like the Russian Primary Chronicle and the letopis genre, and oral folk evidence.

  • The evidence from historical linguistics (e.g. gods' names preserved in modern words) was best analysed by Roman Jakobson in Volume VII of his collected works.

  • Chapter VIII of Marija Gimbutas's The Slavs is about religion and is 20 pages long – worth a read regardless of what you think about Marija Gimbutas.

  • Linda J. Ivanits' 1989 book Russian Folk Belief (on annas-archive dot org as an epub) is a grand little general work, covering the bases: Slavic creation myths, witchcraft, all based on interviews/oral tradition.

  • Encyclopædia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Slavic-religion

  • The Mythology of all Races is one of the go-to sources I listed here and has a section on Slavic Mythology: https://archive.org/details/mythologyofall03gray

  • Modern Paganism in World Cultures: Comparative Perspectives (on annas-archive dot org): Chapter Six, The Revival of Ukrainian Native Faith, is about 30 pages and covers neopaganism

  • Studia Mythologica Slavica seems to be the main journal on the subject, correct me if I'm wrong. Articles in English and Slovenian: https://ojs.zrc-sazu.si/sms – You can search the journal, e.g. a search for the god Triglav

There's a bunch more if you can speak Polish or Russian.

[-] illi@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

That's too broad so I'll pretend you asked "What are some sources to learn about authentic Slavic paganism?"

You found me out. That was the question that promted me, but I made it a bit broader as the other traditions would interest me as well, though I'm of Slavic descent so this is something I have greater interest in.

I also figured Slavic stuff is niche within a niche, so rather than ending up with a thread with no answers, might as well ask more broadly for others to find something nice for them amd me possibly broadening my horizons,

Anyway, thanks for the tips!

this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
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