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That's not true.
It's not embroidery. It's cross stitch.
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The prison system must be reformed.
That said, I'm here to nitpick about format: Stitching aside, in my opinion most "roses are red" memes are not clever/effective.
The first two lines should be related - the original children's rhyme is two flowers followed by two colors. Here we have a flower and color followed by a food and a flavor.
Then the last two lines don't have any relation to the first two. Just, well these rhyme so we'll put them next to each other.
In the original poem it's something like,
Roses are red, Violets are blue, Sugar is sweet And so are you
The third line does mention flavor so kudos to this creator for at least tying that in. That said, I think what makes the original poem effective is it's a sort of matter of fact inventory about the known qualities of the world, and all things which are related (in this case I guess "girly"/feminine things). Well, we know this flower is this color and that flower is that, and we all know sugar is sweet, and of course we all know you are too.
So if we wanted to use all that to inform a poem about how fucked our justice system is, how about something like,
Blood cells are red, Bruises are blue, Ancient egypt had slaves U.S. prisons do too
Could use some work and maybe not zany enough for crossstitching, but I hope that shows what I mean.
The first two lines are matter of fact statements about bodily function and colors that also mirror the original lines of the poem in terms of last word. The third line is a matter of fact statement no one would object to about a related subject and the last line while keeping the original rhyme introduces another matter of fact statement which is perhaps less universally agreed on (I think you're sweet too!) but is actually the main reason the poem is being recited.
it's Beautiful
Blood cells are red, Bruises are blue, Ancient egypt had slaves U.S. prisons do too
Seems like this could be a tricky problem because the best thing for them is to work and learn, but I can understand how that could possibly be abused. I would guess its typically a good thing, but then gets abused at times.
The best thing for the imprisoned is a justice system focused on rehabilitation into society, not forced labor and punishment.
I don't think years of no work are great for rehab. It makes it tough to adjust back into the flow of work once you're out, when you're already going to have a hard time getting back into the job market.
Work can be a part of the rehab process! Training for new jobs can be massive. Many crimes are due to socioeconomic struggles, so training can end this cycle, along with free education and support so that poorer people can still have time to go to college even if they dom't make much money.
Forced labor should be abolished.
An inmate makes between 10¢ and 65¢ per hour, with the majority being paid less than 25¢ per hour. According to the 13th Amendment, they don’t need to be paid at all. The prison dictates an inmate’s eligibility and mandate to work. It is compulsory in most prisons.
Here’s an article on some of the food, cotton, and tobacco industry brands that take advantage of the cheap labor.
This is not rehabilitation. It’s exploitation.
I dont think its exploitation unless they are being left in prison for longer due to the need for their labor. Outside of learning/rehabilitation, what in prison do you want them do to that is better than work?
I dont think its exploitation unless they are being left in prison for longer due to the need for their labor
Typically solitary confinement is used as punishment for not working.
So esentially, "work or get brain damage" is the motto of prisons. Couple that with it being a for-profit system, it is very clearly exploitation.
It's racially motivated as well, because POC are disproportionately policed/arrested/imprisoned for the same crimes as white people.
It's slavery, but with extra steps to attempt to make it socially acceptable. "They're criminals! Of course we should be allowed to force them to work and profit off of them, after all they're not innocent, they deserve it."
Nevermind the fact that there are loads of people in the system there because of non-violent drug offenses, which were very clearly made illegal to control racial minorities.
Outside of learning/rehabilitation, what in prison do you want them do to that is better than work?
Non-violent offenders should generally be released. Those that remain, if they are going to work, should be payed a fair wage, with no consequences for failing to work.
Beyond that, rehabilitation should be the number one priority.
I could agree with the idea that they are paid a fair wage if they also have to pay for the costs of their imprisonment. And that actually might be a good way to get them back and ready for society. Outside of the bullshit pretend ways that people are "rehabilitated" what is a better way than actually working? I have nothing against reading books and talking to whoever, but that only gets men so far, most men (especially the kind the get to prison) need to work with their hands and learn by doing.
I could agree with the idea that they are paid a fair wage if they also have to pay for the costs of their imprisonment.
By and large that is already how it works, and it is fundamentally broken:
Prisoners end up getting released and indebted, which is a terrible recipe for recidivism.
The cost of imprisonment is a public service to keep society safe and functioning. And it should be kept to a minimum, which means ensuring that inmates actually have a chance of leading a good life once released. They can't do that if they are starting from scratch or debt.
I understand that prisons are part of the costs of government, but if you are wanting them to get paid fairly then I dont want people that have done bad to get free room and board.
"People who have done bad" is incredibly subjective.
And regardless of what you want, it is better for society that people have a good chance of starting a better life when they get out of prison. Not only is that cheaper in the long run, but it's also a matter of safety. The cheapest and safest move is to release them debt free with their earnings from their work.
And it isn't free room and board, it's imprisonment.
Housing inmates also costs about $115 a day on average. Or around $42,672 of tax payer money. Might as well work to pay back society.
Slaves didn’t have a choice. Felons did.
How do you feel about those convicted for selling marijuana or just having marijuana in enough of a quantity that the police decided they were selling?
Completely different topic. My brother was a victim of this so I don’t feel very fondly about it. Like I said though, completely different topic.
How is it a completely different topic? Do you think the choice to smoke or carry marijuana justifies being imprisoned and enslaved?
False dilemma. It would be like me saying “do you think pedophiles and mass murderers shouldn’t have to pay back their debt to society?”
As far as marijuana decriminalization goes - I’m all for it. And I don’t even smoke.
I think the issue in this thread is that when you think of slavery, the only thing that comes to your mind is the worst of chattel slavery, which was worse than our current prison system. There are many other forms of slavery throughout history some were "better" than our current prison system, many were worse.
Curious if people in this sub would rather be in an American, Russian, or Chinese prison system.
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Do you really think it's all people that "deserve" it? Also, only 31% of the prison population is white. Do you think that's a coincidence? Are POC that much more likely to commit crimes worthy of prison time? Or is the system maybe prejudiced in who it targets? None of this is a "different topic". It's all interconnected.
El Salvador has the highest incarceration rate in the world and it’s not really even close.
It's not really even relevant. El Salvador has a smaller population than New York City (6M vs 8M) and statistics don't really scale like that when you're comparing a country of 6 million to a country of 333 million. The US has 4.2% of the world population and 20% of the world incarcerated population. We have more than 3 times more people in prison than the total population of El Salvador.
Ok? And?
You want me to respond to you comment that isn’t factual? I did.
You're acting like you're intellectually superior here, but dismissing someone's overall point because one thing they said wasn't exactly correct is lazy and obvious, and your commitment to defending the exploitation of the unjustly incarcerated is gross.
Most people in prison are there for crimes of poverty, or for "crimes" that rich people are not punished for. So you're punishing people for their circumstances, not their actions. https://qz.com/1233966/new-data-clearly-illustrate-the-poverty-to-prison-pipeline Do you think white collar criminals are out working in regulation-free hard labor lines? No, no they are not.
You know prisoners are charged for every day of their incarceration, right..? If they work a 12 hour day and make 25cents per hour, that's $3 per day, but they owe $150+ per day for their housing and food expenses, they are being punished beyond their stay as they will be in debt and have garnished wages for life. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/paying-your-time-how-charging-inmates-fees-behind-bars-may-violate? , https://apnews.com/article/crime-prisons-lawsuits-connecticut-074a8f643766e155df58d2c8fbc7214c
Maybe focus on not imprisoning people that do not need to be imprisoned rather than extracting cash and labor from people who have basically been kidnapped for profit.
Might as well work to pay back society.
But that work generally doesn't get payed back to society, it goes towards enriching the for-profit prison owners, and enriching the businesses that use ~~slave~~ prisoner labor.
Non-violent offenses shouldn't result in forced labor within a for-profit prison. That's neo-slavery, with the prison owners motivated to change the laws to get as many people imprisoned as possible.
That's why we have such a high prison rate, and that's why such a disproportionate amount of prisoners are POC.
Slaves didn’t have a choice. Felons did.
Felons didn't perpetuate the prison industrial complex. They didn't perpetuate the laws that made the dumbest non-violent crimes imprisonment level offenses. The people who enrich themselves off of prison labor did.
Okay, so you are for forced labor on the hardened violent criminals, but lenient (no work) for the non-violent?
What should they all do in their free time?
If you are talking about justice reform, that’s a different topic and I completely agree with you.
Okay, so you are for forced labor on the hardened violent criminals, but lenient (no work) for the non-violent?
No. Forced labor should be abolished. I was merely using the fact that the majority of "felons who made their choices", are people who have no place being there in the first place. The prison industrial complex lobbied the legislatures to make laws which increase the prison population as much as possible. The end result being many non-violent "criminal" offenses land you in jail and enslaved.
What should they all do in their free time?
Rehabilitation, learning trades, work, reading, whatever, it doesn't matter. But none of it should be forced.
If you are talking about justice reform, that’s a different topic and I completely agree with you.
All of this is justice reform. You can't have justice reform without acknowledging that slavery is wrong.
c/shitUSApesSay
Might as well make it like similar to a plantation and make sure they make the minimum then, huh?
[deleted]
One problem (there are many) with not caring about the rights of criminals is that "criminal" is not an immovable line. Governments can, have, and do throw away the rights of criminals using these kinds of arguments, and then re-categorize groups of people they don't like as criminals.
Are we talking about the ethical considerations regarding prison work or are we talking about specific issues regarding reintegrating criminals back into society?
Good question, I'm not sure what your stance is. You seem to be saying two different things.
- Prisoners should have work available to them so that they can maintain a sense of normalcy and reintegrate with society.
- Prisoners are in prison of their own choice, so we can make them work against their will.
Are those both representations of your beliefs? I don't want to strawman you.
[deleted]
Even in fucking Norway, the prisoner utopia, they work.
Under threat of solitary confinement (brain damage)?
this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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