Does Anybody Have Good Sources on Policy Around Religion in The PRC? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 1 year ago by NumaNuma@lemmygrad.ml to c/china@lemmy.ml

3 comments fedilink hide all child comments

As the Western world grows more intolerant and various nations continue to favor their preferred religions over others, I've become more critical of the Western claim of superior religious freedom. But inevitably, I get into it with liberal online who, having bad sources or none at all, claim that China is worse when it comes to religious freedom.

I don't think it's useful to defend everything a state does. They often make mistakes and use their violence in the wrong way. But I do think China in particular doesn't have the same issues with religion as the Western countries do. Namely, they don't allow one religion to dominate over others or set their laws on the basis of religious beliefs. To me, that's an incredible step forward (I like in the USA, where women's reproductive rights were just taken away in part on the grounds that the Bible (supposedly) says so).

But I'd like to be a little more educated. Finding any good resources on China these days is like trying to find anything on the internet before Google existed: you gotta just feel in the dark and hope you get lucky.

I cannot reason with the libs. They do not reason well. For example, pointing out the sheer lack of religious freedom that many face in Western countries does not phase them. They don't care (usually they're privileged to not).

So can somebody point me in the right direction? Even a book or paper on the topic would be great.

top 3 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] Hillock@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

The Souls of China: The Return of Religion After Mao https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=vQ6wDAAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y
That would be a pretty good book to read.

The biggest hurdle you will have in convincing people that China has more religious freedom than the West is the Uyghur Genocide. While it's not happening purely for religious reasons it's hard to say it doesn't play a role especially since the Chinese government is razing thousands of mosques. I don't see how you can argue that China has bigger religious freedom than the West while this is going on.

[-] NumaNuma@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Thanks. I'll check that out.

I don't think there's real evidence the Uyghur thing is actual genocide. Nothing points to that. We might be able to say that China is overdoing it and has fallen into the territory of negatively effecting the culture and identity of those people. But it's certain not actual genocide. They're dealing with serious issues of terrorism on their borders and the ideology of those terrorist factions has latched onto their culture and identity. Sussing all that out is an impossible task. Yet they must do something because too many innocent people were being killed by bombings.

I don't agree with China's methods there. Simultaneously, I can recognize that when the USA has similar issues (9/11 attacks for example), they chose outright war and killing millions of innocent people in the name of defeating terrorism (which they, predictably, never accomplished). So, um, if given these two bad options, I think China did better.

But, more importantly, I think China's trajectory is much better. As capitalism gets more desperate, it's been closing borders, allowing helpless immigrants to drown in boats, destabilizing countries, etc. Meanwhile, China continues to improve their methods of dealing with sticky situations and not just rolling in the tanks at the first sign of trouble (like they used to).

Anyway. That's the extent that I know about that stuff (lots of listening to David Dumbrill's stuff on YouTube).

But you are right that conversation is impossible while the "Uyghur issue" exists.

[-] Hillock@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't say China is dealing with refugees any better. Their biggest source of refugees are from North Korea. And guess what, North Koreans don't seek asylum in China and rather continue illegally through to get to Mongolia or even down south to Laos, Thailand, etc. Because North Koreans captured in China are either returned to North Korea or sold into slavery. The later I wouldn't attribute to the Chinese government.

According to a quick Google China has around 1,200 refugees and 1,000 of that are North Korean awaiting deportation. So not only does China simply not get refugees, the few they get are usually treated in the worst manner. Being returned to a country where they will certainly be executed.

There are few good government in this world. China isn't the worst and indeed has been on an improving trajectory at least until recently. But their lack of bringing out tanks is mostly due to fear of intervention by the USA. Otherwise they would have brought them to Taiwan by now. In general they are following a rather aggressive strategy in the South East Asian Sea.

That the USA isn't exemplary when it comes to human rights is nothing new. What they did in the Middle East is also unexcusable.